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Post by ogre44 on Mar 12, 2010 9:31:15 GMT -5
A friend and I got together last night for our first game without one of the more AE experienced members of our club and we came up with a handful of questions during the game.
1) Which takes precedence, Suppression or Rout? I managed to suppress one of his squads and then force it's drive low enough that it was in rout. The rout rules specify that the unit must make a move action toward the nearest table edge, while the suppression rules say that the only action that can be made is a move action, but the models cannot leave cover.
2) How can you take a Vampire? You need to take the Schutcommando(SP) to unlock the Kreighex(SP) to unlock the Vampire. All 3 of these are Veteran selections. We looked through all of the Detachments in both books and did not find one that allowed for more than one Elite and one Veteran selection.
3) Where are the statistics for the Draugr's Ghost Rifle?
4) If the Schutcommando(SP) takes the Teutonic Blade does the +1 CC from the TB stack with the +1CC from his Vril Dagger?
5) If a Detachment is allowed to take more than 1 Special Order may it take the same SO multiple times?
And as a general question, what is the terrain density desired for a really good tense game of AE-WWII. During the after-game chat we came to the conclusion that every game we'd both played in (a whopping 3 between both of us) the opposing forces moved into weapons range of each other, hunkered down and suppressed/shot at each other until someone broke and fled.
Looking through the core rulebook the few wider view photos seem to indicate a fairly dense city type table, but I'd like some opinions on that.
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Post by mkcontra on Mar 12, 2010 11:38:05 GMT -5
1) Rout, as soon as you try to activate the unit and it has 0 drive.
2) Veteran Detachment provides 1 elite and 2 vets, but other detachments can use the options system to upgrade a regular slot to a veteran.
3) There is a table somewhere in the book with all the new weapons. I'm not sure of the exact page #.
4) AFAIK, no, as you can only use 1 melee weapon at a time.
5) Yes, unless the SO says you cannot.
@ Terrain: it varies, but generally the more the better. Even if it's LOS blocking or only light (tree/bushes, etc.) cover, it'll help. Having wide swathes of open ground really can make it a long-range, non-dynamic game. Having the ability to actually (relatively) safely advance helps a lot.
In some cases, you may want to recreate an Eastern front or desert type battle - just keep in mind that if that's the case, casualties will be high (as they should be).
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Post by CmdrKiley on Mar 12, 2010 17:24:38 GMT -5
2) Command and Veteran can be used right from the get-go. One of the three will be an Elite. Infantry, Reconnaissance, Support, Experimental and Occult can be used if you drop a Green Selection to upgrade a Regular Selection to Veteran TL. You could also drop the Elite selection for a selection of a lower TL (Veteran), but why?
3) Ghost Rifle is on page 20.
The battlefields of AE-WWII are far away from the Green Fields of Kent. Cover is life use it a lot. AE is pretty generous with the cover rules too. Models are assumed to be using terrain for cover as much as possible. If any part of the model is obscured by terrain, it gets a cover bonus.
If you are lacking models and only have a very open area, assume it's high grass or light foilage everywhere. Enemy units can be seen enough to shoot at, just not good enough to aim of any vital parts. Then all models get a Light Cover bonus of +1.
Another thing is to try the Battlefield Conditions rules in the Occult Expansion (p.108). If you field the Vampire you automatically get the Night condition.
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Post by gabus on Mar 12, 2010 20:57:57 GMT -5
2) Veteran Detachment provides 1 elite and 2 vets, but other detachments can use the options system to upgrade a regular slot to a veteran. The way that upgrading is written though, it looks like you can upgrade an EXISTING unit's TL to veteran. You cant take a regular slot and make the slot veteran then take the vampire.. unless I have really missread this. |
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Post by csr556 on Mar 12, 2010 22:59:27 GMT -5
@ Gabus
A little clarification here.
Lets use a fictional detachment for an example. It has the following slots to fill:
1 elite
1 veteran
2 regular
2 green
slots to fill.
You may sacrifice a regular slot to upgrade another slot to veteran.
This would leave you with:
1 elite
2 veteran
1 regular and 2 green remaining to fill with units.
Better?
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Post by gabus on Mar 13, 2010 13:28:18 GMT -5
Well, if it works that way, thats great, but thats not what is written, which is the source of confusion. If thats the way it works, it should be in the FAQ then. It should say you can drop a slot to upgrade a slot.
It is specific that you can upgrade an EXISTING unit by dropping a slot, it doesn't say you can drop a slot to upgrade a slot.
The way it is written, I have to fill the slot with a legit unit for the slot, then can drop a slot to upgrade it. It has to exist before I can upgrade... Do you see what I mean?
I don't mean to start an argument, I have played all of 2 games at this point, and if this has been hashed out in earlier discussions that I am unaware of, then all apologies.
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Post by evernevermore(john) on Mar 13, 2010 22:07:01 GMT -5
I pulled out my copy - and Gabus is correct with the wording. I would never have read it the way he did, but by the exact terms of what is written he looks to be right. Course my copy is also a first printing that managed to have no problems with the spine, has this wording changed in the newer printings?
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Post by Darkson on Mar 13, 2010 22:58:02 GMT -5
The wording has stayed the same as we have not done a new edition with all of the FAQ corrections.
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Post by ogre44 on Mar 14, 2010 8:34:16 GMT -5
So you cannot upgrade slots, only already selected units, correct?
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Post by Darkson on Mar 14, 2010 10:13:21 GMT -5
We are working on cleaning up the wording and will post it when we have a final version.
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Post by mkcontra on Mar 14, 2010 14:59:43 GMT -5
(Note that I don't have my book handy, please feel free to correct my informal quotations as necessary) I believe some clarity is obtained in that the detachments list available 'units;' thus veteran gives you 1 elite unit selection, 2 veteran unit selections, etc. Do the upgrade rules say existing unit SELECTION or simply unit? I need to confirm with my book. I believe it says 'selection,' but I could be wrong. An 'existing unit selection' can certainly mean a 'slot' (slot isn't really used as an official term in the book iirc). However, if it does just say 'unit,' then it is unclear. Regardless, the multiple times I've had designers explain it to me, the upgrade is the 'slot' rather than the unit. The problem is in the lack of official distinction between unit, unit selection and slot.
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Post by gabus on Mar 14, 2010 17:05:46 GMT -5
We are working on cleaning up the wording and will post it when we have a final version. Ok, well at least I am only partially crazy.  I appreciate the discussion, as I want to maximize my detachment utility, but I don't want to cheat.  I look forward to the official ruling, and until then, will be happy to play whatever my local group decides. |
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Post by ogre44 on Mar 14, 2010 17:14:14 GMT -5
We decided on no werewolves and that the gremlin spell takes 6 Drive and 5 AP to cast.
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Post by gabus on Mar 14, 2010 17:37:46 GMT -5
Nice... as you can tell... Ogre is in my local. |
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Post by Scorpio on Mar 14, 2010 22:47:25 GMT -5
Nice... as you can tell... Ogre is in my local. And it sounds like you've been spanking him with the SS, so, keep up the good work! |
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I look forward to the official ruling, and until then, will be happy to play whatever my local group decides. 