What do the public know?

[mechaace]

Just out of interest, I'm wondering what do the public know about the War. I mean obviously they'll know roughly what's happening but I'm more wondering as to do they know what is being used.

Do they know about the super-science and occult weaponry that is being used by both the Allies and the Axis.

Concerning allied tech, I imagine it that they probably know that some new weapons etc are being used, maybe even see some in the form of rocket troop fly bys or something, but very rarely see it and are kind of in awe of it.

In terms of the occult stuff the allies are using, I would imagine not so much as a lot of doesn't paint the allies in a great nature at times.

The nazis they may know a bit more in that they know they're using super-science and occult cause again it doesn't paint the nazis in the best of lights and makes the fight seem more just.

[abbysdad]

Wow.

That's an interesting question.

Maybe in the new book, or in the next book, we'll get some fluff text about people in line at a recruiting center in 1946/47? Or some news from the home front? Maybe some correspondence from a loved one (Captain Wolf's girl friend?) who mentions what people are talking about?

But I think we can take some reasonable guesses about how the public would react to these things from our current culture.

For example, most people can be told over and over again that nuclear power is clean, efficient, safe and cheap. They can be told it is safe and secure. They can be assured that there are several viable options to accomodate long term waste storage. You can even sweeten the description of a nuclear power plant by showing how the presence of one in an area creates 5000 high paying technical jobs that cannot be relocated overseas.

But no one wants a nuclear power plant in their backyard.

If you mention the word nuclear, people (even small children!) think of explosive devices of mass destruction. This is all in spite of the fact that in the incredible circumstances that a nuclear power plant in the US were to meltdown, it would/could not blow up.

And yet these same citizens, who will write to their congressmen about the horrors of nuclear power and how it is a blight on our country and should not be relied upon for our energy supply because it will harm our children's children...will pay to take their family to visit a harbor where they can tour a nuclear powered aircraft carrier or submarine.

The American people can simultaneously reconcile the concept (or ignore the contradiction) that a stationary, highly regulated nuclear power plant is bad but a mobile nuclear power plant that gets shot at is cool!

So I can see a situation in the AE world were magicians are chased out of towns in the heart land but are lauded as heroes in the military. I can see a case where ARPA takes its sucesses on the battlefield and transfers some of the technology or occult tools to civilian uses.

Maybe the GI bill in the AE world includes robots to help disabled vets? Maybe the occult abilities prevent people from permanently losing limbs? Maybe the nature of technology and the occult advances the cause of civil rights? Maybe a homunoculus becomes Howdy Doody's side kick on TV?

Who knows?

But it sure is fun to think about.

Best Regards,

Chris

[marcalla]

Its an interesting topic.

I can see keeping the Occult side on the QT in the US (especially through the bible belt). Though also in this time period I think the sentiment would be more akin to "our government wouldn't do anything to harm us, and is in the right" You don't tend to see as much dissension till after WWII and the liberation mentality it creates.

For the German sides, I think the Occult would/could be a bit more open given the propaganda machine using nationalism to make it acceptable. Or at the very least seen more as a high party quirk. "Can your son or daughter see the future in their dreams? Do they start fires without any source of ignition? If so inform your local SS recruiter for the fatherland..."

As to technology American's would eat that stuff up. I could see after the war instead of biker clubs, rocket pack clubs. Or like was said earlier surplus robot's being "hot rodded" by former greese monkey's ala the custom car era in California.

And as far as Russia goes, they actually did have massive recruitment programs to find Psi capable persons within their populace.

[xGIxJOKERx]

Americans would probably be all about the ARPA. I can see parades featuring robots marching in formation and rocket trooper fly overs.
As has been stated earlier, the Germans could play up certain occult thinks as a national pride thing, especially the new Teutonic Knights. They could play up the 'we conquered the monsters and now the enemy fears the night' angle in their propaganda.
We haven't seen much on the British side yet, but assuming they have their own version of the ARPA they would have a similar attitude towards showing off their cool shinny new toys. British occult stuff does not seem too sinister so far, more nature based so it can be played off as a return to pre-roman tradition.
The Psi phenomenon is occurring more commonly among the population of the USSR so there is no hiding that but what exactly happens to those who are snached up and inducted to the Psi programs is probably a closely held secret. The propaganda is that they are all valiantly serving the state against the fascists, but more probably many of them die being experimented on or having implants put in to enhance their powers.

[malkcntent]

Fantastic topic! Consider my thoughts more or less 'official'. Clint can chime in as well.

The ARPA and their technological wonders would certainly be the highlight of the American military. I can see propaganda pieces about 'rocket troopers winning the war' and the like.

The SD and their genetic abominations I can see as a bit more mixed in the public's awareness. Sure, the occasional genetic wonder will be revealed as proof of Germany's technological genius, but the horrors of the emaciated soldiers, the feuersoldats and the like will probably be kept under the rug.

The Soviets definitely take a hard line against psychics. The only good psychic is one controlled by the NKVD and the general population has been taught for decades to fear psychics as witches and enemies of the state. The NKVD goes to great lengths to hide the number and abilities of their psychics from both their allies/enemies and their own population. The leaders of the Communist Party uses telepaths to spy on everyone, including dissidents within their own country - anyone could be an agent of the ROA or the Germans.

The occult forces of all sides are far more rare and less understood than their technological counterparts and their role in the war is most often downplayed. In Germany, the SS definitely parades around their amazing vril weaponry and the SS Knights, but the secrets of the Hell Hounds, Hell Hosts, Krieghexe, Vampires, Werewolves and Draugr are well-kept even from the Wehrmacht and especially the ROA/SD.

Britain takes a slightly more public route with their occultists, after the Witchcraft Act of 1735 is publicly repealed in July of 1940. The British have created campaigns trying to get native occultists to join the Ministry of Arcane Armaments, to great success. Apart from this, the UK public knows little about the success of these occult forces.

Such is not the case in the United States. In August of 1944 the Occult Enlistment Act is passed down by President MacArthur, resulting in the forced enlistment of hundreds of American occultists. Hardest hit are the Native Americans and many tribes riot against the FBI when they come to round up their medicine men. The general public is kept in the dark regarding the occult programs of the OORD, who has been given free reign to do whatever they need to in order to win the war. Few Americans believe the tales of their brothers, sons and husbands fighting abroad about the terrible occult powers fighting alongside them.

The governments of all the countries involved would be doing everything they could to keep the technological and occult wonder weapons out of the eyes of the public and their enemies. Organizations such as the SD, the NKVD and the OSS are kept quite busy ensuring these dirty little secrets don't get out.

[fattdex]

And this is why we love you <3

[mechaace]

Cool, I'm interested cause as in another topic I'm thinking of doing an RPG based very much on AE-WWII and was wondering what the official stance was. So lets see if I can get this correct then?

So basically the Americans know a bit about the technological wonder weapons, even so far as encountering them maybe (robots being used at docks, rocket troops on patrol etc) whereas the occult things really aren't believed, and nobody talks about them especially as they're just drafted.

The British seem to be a bit more open about there technological (I'm presuming section Q is the technology division) and occult weapons, even running billboards etc asking for occultists to volunteer. As someone said it's the "Can you start a fire with merely a few words? Then your country needs you, report to your army recruitment station today".

Russia yeah while the public know people are becoming psychic, they fear them because they've been taught too, and because they could be NKVD presumably. As you say they know yes people are becoming psychic, they just don't know what the state are doing with them. Again the propaganda about how they "Gloriously defend the Russian people against the Nazi abominations"

The Nazis would probably display the more normal weapons, like the new Knights or their troopers and about how they can fight better using V-stoff, just don't tell them it turns you into a homicidal killer, that they're experimenting on prisoners or that we also have demons in the army correct?

And obviously all the governments wouldn't show everything. Sure all the stuff the other side already knows about, lets put that on parade but something that hasn't really been used yet, that's kept strictly under wraps.

Just out of interest would the other sides show off the weapons their enemies are using (So allies show off German stuff, Germans show off allies stuff), especially the worse ones like the abominations etc to show that they are in the right and the other's aren't?

[malkcntent]

Jul 17, 2009 3:07:25 GMT -5 fattdex said:

And this is why we love you <3

I thought it was because of my winning personality and dashing good looks. ;D

[malkcntent]

Jul 17, 2009 5:32:59 GMT -5 mechaace said:

So basically the Americans know a bit about the technological wonder weapons, even so far as encountering them maybe (robots being used at docks, rocket troops on patrol etc) whereas the occult things really aren't believed, and nobody talks about them especially as they're just drafted.

Native Americans will be VERY vocal about the use of occultists in the war, speaking out against the government's forced enlistment programs. Other small groups do as well, but the government tries to keep this under the rug. So, it's clear the Americans are using occultists, but the general public isn't really sure what the Native Americans are complaining about.

As someone said it's the "Can you start a fire with merely a few words? Then your country needs you, report to your army recruitment station today".

I love that slogan!

The Nazis would probably display the more normal weapons, like the new Knights or their troopers and about how they can fight better using V-stoff, just don't tell them it turns you into a homicidal killer, that they're experimenting on prisoners or that we also have demons in the army correct?

Correct.

Just out of interest would the other sides show off the weapons their enemies are using (So allies show off German stuff, Germans show off allies stuff), especially the worse ones like the abominations etc to show that they are in the right and the other's aren't?

Oh absolutely. Embedded journalists bring back images of the new wonder weapons the enemy is using and puts them to use revealing these to the public. Allied media and propaganda films show all sorts of German abominations and supernatural beings, exposing the 'true lengths to which Germany will go to win the war'. On the flip side, German films expose the true nature of the US occult programs and these films sometimes leak into Britain and the US (giving the Native Americans fuel against the government).

[cheif]

Jul 17, 2009 14:14:28 GMT -5 malkcntent said:

Just out of interest would the other sides show off the weapons their enemies are using (So allies show off German stuff, Germans show off allies stuff), especially the worse ones like the abominations etc to show that they are in the right and the other's aren't?

Oh absolutely. Embedded journalists bring back images of the new wonder weapons the enemy is using and puts them to use revealing these to the public. Allied media and propaganda films show all sorts of German abominations and supernatural beings, exposing the 'true lengths to which Germany will go to win the war'. On the flip side, German films expose the true nature of the US occult programs and these films sometimes leak into Britain and the US (giving the Native Americans fuel against the government).

I'm surprised by this, I would imagine that one side would deny any of the enemies more 'flashy' units, while at the same time using propaganda to make their own advances more impressive.

For example, say news had gotten back from the front that the Reich were using demonic units like the SS Hellhost against Allied lines, I would expect a press release from the Chaplaincy to issue a press release claiming "These persistent rumours are no more than a foul hoax thats breaches the leagues of decency and balances of the knife-edge of the blasphemous!"

This protestation over US treatment of the Native Americans intrigues me, would it be going too far to suggest they take the next step into open rebellion? Introducing a (Marxist?) Native American Secessionist Force to wage a guerilla war against the US, combined with the Japanese invasion of Alaska (and maybe more?) would make for a very cool 'U.S.A.' campaign.

[Cilionelle]

Furthering the out-of-curiosity line of questioning, what is the Church's stance on the use of occult stuff, and does it have a part to play?

[mechaace]

Jul 18, 2009 4:03:45 GMT -5 cheif said:

I'm surprised by this, I would imagine that one side would deny any of the enemies more 'flashy' units, while at the same time using propaganda to make their own advances more impressive.

For example, say news had gotten back from the front that the Reich were using demonic units like the SS Hellhost against Allied lines, I would expect a press release from the Chaplaincy to issue a press release claiming "These persistent rumours are no more than a foul hoax thats breaches the leagues of decency and balances of the knife-edge of the blasphemous!

I'm not really, I mean for a start what would make your advances look all the more impressive than seeing them easily destroy the allies/nazis new wonder weapons. Also if you can show your advances (only certain ones of course) destroying the other sides advances that would be considered more horrific (things like hellhosts/abominations for the nazis and wendigo and what not for the allies) then it makes you look as if your cause is just for you are destroying these people and their foul weapons.

[martel]

Thinking of Hellhosts and such, I'm imagining the Soviets try to keep a very tight lid on how much the public and the normal Red Army units hear about them- as an officially atheistic state, the existence of occultic forces would cast doubt on the foundations of the Soviet state (this despite the fact that the Commissars tended to look the other way if a crucifix was found in a soldier's possession).

I imagine the official line is that Fascist claims that these units are occultic in origin are nothing more that the desperate lies of counter-revolutionaries, and that the freaks created by Fascist science are nothing more than a confirmation of the depths to which they will sink in their desperation to forestall historical inevitability!

[Rich]

So will all these "lines of thinking" and "more or less official" stances be going into the AE-WWII RPG?

[abbysdad]

We will see.

The focus for this year is the first pacific book and the first expansion books for bounty.

A big dose of background for the American homefront is coming in the soon to be released OTW. Now if only my kids would stop getting sick