|
|
Post by Darkson on Oct 18, 2010 14:01:15 GMT -5
Here is your chance to take part in the development of Bounty. We want to see your ideas for including OverWatch in the system.
Write up your ideas in this thread and be prepared for some play testing.
If you don't like an idea please make sure you have a fix. Do not just state you don't like something.
Cheers,
Robert and the Team
|
|
|
|
Post by gnomesofzurich on Oct 18, 2010 15:56:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure at this point whether or not an "Overwatch" mechanic is necessary for the game, but my suggestion would be:
Overwatch (Special Action)
The model in question covers an area, preparing to fire on enemy units that move within its line of sight. A model taking the Overwatch special action must expend all its action points to do so. Each time an enemy model moves into the line of sight of the model taking the Overwatch special action, the model in question may fire upon it up to a maximum number of times equal to the number of action points expended.
The wording could certainly be fixed up and made more elegant, but as an example:
My Elite unit takes up position on a rise and covers an area which he expects the enemy to move through on their action, taking the Overwatch action and expending 4 action points. Then, he may fire each time an enemy model(s) move within his line of sight, up to a maximum of 4 times. This would instead by 3 times for Veteran, 2 times for Regular and 1 time for Green troops.
There may be holes in this idea, but it's a starting point.
|
|
|
|
Post by varagon on Oct 18, 2010 16:01:48 GMT -5
Declare overwatch during the current activation for 1 AP.
(The above poster mentions exhausting all APs, so that may not be a bad idea.)
Overwatch begins at the start of your next activation. A unit on overwatch may interrupt an enemy unit's activation at any point during the enemy's activation if the enemy unit is in LoS. Declaring interruption is 1 action point (Is 1 AP necessary?).
The enemy unit must immediately stop it's current activation when overwatch is declared against it.
1. Make an opposed drive check (d6+drive) Overwatch unit gains a +1 to opposed drive check roll.
2. If the overwatch unit wins the drive test, it may activate normally and interrupt the enemy unit. The enemy unit may then continue it's normal activation after the interrupting unit finishes it's interrup actions.
3. If the enemy unit wins the oppsed drive check, it continues its activation as normal and gains a +1 CC bonus or +1 RC bonus against the Overwatch unit. Overwatch unit may then activate as normal after the enemy unit's activation.
4. If there is a tie, continue making drive checks until there is a clear winner.
----------------------
I'm thinking the overwatch unit needs to have some sort of negative during it's overwatch turn...
For example, it may not activate during Overwatch status except to declare overwatch interruption then finish the interruption activation.
|
|
|
|
Post by jkoo on Oct 18, 2010 17:12:04 GMT -5
Hello.
Not sure Overwatch is needed considering the AE system. It's really something I liked in some other games and I miss in a couple but not too much in AE-Bounty. The game just works fine without it.
If overwatch is included in AE-Bounty,I think it needs to be very limited and have some serious disadvantages too:
-All action points. However some weapons wouldn't be allowed to be used in overwatch or greens armed with long rifles would get a great advantage.Or perhaps greens couldn' t use it because they aren't hardened enough?
-Drive check for the shooter with a malus of -1 and RC +1.No aim or crack shot abilities.
-No change of facing during the opponent action.
-Only one action and one target unit please. Do we really want a lone elite miniature shooting at everybody like in Infinity games?
-Possibly a malus to CC or something until next activation. I can't see a guy waiting with both his rifle and sword ready.
|
|
|
|
Post by CmdrKiley on Oct 18, 2010 17:47:35 GMT -5
Here's my proposal.
A model may spend 1 AP to declare going on Hold Status. However he must still have at least 1 AP left. (Thus a Green unit may never go on Hold). The number of AP remaining could be tracked by placing a number of Hold counters next to a model equal to the amount of AP they have held in reserve. A model may never go on Hold if it is within 6" of an enemy model. A model may never go on Hold if it is currently at less than half it's orignal Drive.
While on Hold status, the owning player may choose to activate this unit to interrupt the action of an opposing player under the following conditions. However the unit it wishes to interrupt must be performing the action within LOS (foward arc) of the unit. The player may request to have the targeted unit retrace it's path and act upon the most advantageous point of it's movement (a point where there is no cover or within optimal range). Furthermore, once an action has been completed and another action has been declared, the first action may not be interrupted.
The interrupting unit may only make 1 ranged attack action (as long as it has enough AP remaining when it went on hold status) against the unit that caused it to interrupt. Thus only a Veteran or Elite unit could fire a weapon with an ROF of 1:2. Regular units would only get to use a 1:1 weapon. And Elite and Veteran units may only get one shot off, regardless of how many AP they had when left-over. Because it is a quick snapfire action, any Long Range attacks by an interrupting unit suffer an additional +1 RC.
A Unit on Hold will loose it's Hold Status (and any AP held in reserve) for any of the following reasons.
- It is forced to make a Drive Test for any reason (like Suppression)
- It is forced to make a Compulsory movement for any reason
- It is hit (but not necessarially wounded) by a ranged attack
- It is in base to base contact with an enemy model
- An enemy model moves within 6" of the unit
- The unit's Drive drops below 1/2 of it's original Drive
- It is moved for any reason (i.e. Psychic Push, Kinetic Blasts, Explosive Decompression etc.)
- The unit is activatated (whether by choice or forced to by some Special Ability or Dirty Trick).
In addition to shooting, a unit on hold may choose to avoid incoming blast and template weapons. After the template has been placed, the unit on Hold may choose to use it's held actions to 'jump out of the way'. After declaring that it will do so, it must make a Drive Test for each action held in reserve (for each model). The model may only use it's AP to move away from the template (no sprinting). However the moving models may not move into base contact with an enemy model. Once all models in the unit have spent their Move Actions, their Hold Status is removed. Any models that moved out of cohesion, must spend their next activation getting within unit cohesion.
A Hold Status may be carried over to the following turn, and is lost when the unit is activated normally. Thus a unit could potentially forgo it's activation one turn to potentially get 2 activations in the following turn (however one of them is limited and held at a risk).
This may sound complex but really will only work best for High TL models under specific conditions. It really limits all the grunts potshotting at you whenever you make a move (one thing I hated about Infinity) and puts a lot of risk back on the Holding player.
|
|
|
|
Post by varagon on Oct 18, 2010 21:49:03 GMT -5
Here's my proposal. (Thus a Green unit may never go on Hold). Whic was partly my reason for actually interrupting enemy units with a cost of 1AP.  Green units spend one? Ooops, nothing left. |
|
|
|
Post by dijit80 on Oct 22, 2010 15:33:02 GMT -5
Overwatch
Sometimes it is advantageous to set up a weapon covering an area so as to catch any enemy movement into that area. A model may use all their AP to go on to ‘overwatch’. Once a model is on overwatch place a marker anywhere in the model’s LoS, draw an imaginary line between this marker and the model’s base. Any single unit moving within 2" of this line may be targeted by the overwatch model before the model is activated again, but with -1Rg penalty in addition to any modifiers for range, etc and may not use the crack shot and aim special abilities. A overwatching model may shoot at any point of the enemy’s movement as long as it is within the 2 units of the line, meaning it can wait until it leaves cover. A model is counted as being on overwatch the start of it’s activation.
|
|
|
|
Post by varagon on Oct 22, 2010 19:00:02 GMT -5
Overwatch Sometimes it is advantageous to set up a weapon covering an area so as to catch any enemy movement into that area. A model may use all their AP to go on to ‘overwatch’. Once a model is on overwatch place a marker anywhere in the model’s LoS, draw an imaginary line between this marker and the model’s base. Any single unit moving within 2" of this line may be targeted by the overwatch model before the model is activated again, but with -1Rg penalty in addition to any modifiers for range, etc and may not use the crack shot and aim special abilities. A overwatching model may shoot at any point of the enemy’s movement as long as it is within the 2 units of the line, meaning it can wait until it leaves cover. A model is counted as being on overwatch the start of it’s activation. Opponents would just avoid the 4" line...unless absolutely necessary., so not much of a benefit. Then, ask yourself, would I use overwatch if this is the rule? |
|
|
|
Post by pixelgeek on Oct 22, 2010 22:17:58 GMT -5
Here is your chance to take part in the development of Bounty. We want to see your ideas for including OverWatch in the system. Overwatch isn't necessary in a game with alternating activations. |
|
|
|
Post by varagon on Oct 22, 2010 22:29:29 GMT -5
Here is your chance to take part in the development of Bounty. We want to see your ideas for including OverWatch in the system. Overwatch isn't necessary in a game with alternating activations. So why do we have dirty tricks that allow units to activate immediately or again after all units have activated? It's sort of the same thing (There are some differences, of course). It just allows the player to interrupt another player's activation by giving more options. It makes the activating player thing twice about running between terrain pieces, ie, cover. Im not arguing whether or not overwatch is needed. We can start a new thread for that. I'm simply working with what Darkson has stated in the original post. Discussing the possible rule. |
|
|
|
Post by pixelgeek on Oct 23, 2010 13:50:51 GMT -5
Overwatch isn't necessary in a game with alternating activations. So why do we have dirty tricks that allow units to activate immediately or again after all units have activated? Since those aren't the same as Overwatch I don't really see what your point is |
|
|
|
Post by dijit80 on Oct 23, 2010 16:27:18 GMT -5
Overwatch Sometimes it is advantageous to set up a weapon covering an area so as to catch any enemy movement into that area. A model may use all their AP to go on to ‘overwatch’. Once a model is on overwatch place a marker anywhere in the model’s LoS, draw an imaginary line between this marker and the model’s base. Any single unit moving within 2" of this line may be targeted by the overwatch model before the model is activated again, but with -1Rg penalty in addition to any modifiers for range, etc and may not use the crack shot and aim special abilities. A overwatching model may shoot at any point of the enemy’s movement as long as it is within the 2 units of the line, meaning it can wait until it leaves cover. A model is counted as being on overwatch the start of it’s activation. Opponents would just avoid the 4" line...unless absolutely necessary., so not much of a benefit. Then, ask yourself, would I use overwatch if this is the rule? Overwatch represents a model setting his rifle up so that it covers a corridor of fire - have you ever tried watching your full 180° field of vision for the slightest movement? Spotting the movement, readying your weapon, and aiming would mean you lost any advantage. And yes I would (and do) use a similar rule and it's very effective. You place the corridor along the edge of some terrain that you know your opponent has to go through, it's all about tactics. 180° overwatch ala 40k 2ed is just too much, drains the fun, dynamics and tactics out of a game and unrealistic as to what you would do. Duncan |
|
|
|
Post by varagon on Oct 23, 2010 19:51:32 GMT -5
180° overwatch ala 40k 2ed is just too much, drains the fun, dynamics and tactics out of a game and unrealistic as to what you would do. Duncan Realism? |
|
|
|
Post by dijit80 on Oct 24, 2010 4:34:09 GMT -5
180° overwatch ala 40k 2ed is just too much, drains the fun, dynamics and tactics out of a game and unrealistic as to what you would do. Duncan Realism? Good point - well made! Let's drop that part of my argument then  But I still stand by the rest. Duncan |
|
|
|
Post by abbysdad on Oct 24, 2010 21:16:56 GMT -5
Here is your chance to take part in the development of Bounty. We want to see your ideas for including OverWatch in the system. Overwatch isn't necessary in a game with alternating activations. I agree with you Zac. But a lot of people have asked about it. A lot of people have emailed us about it. So we wanted to collect some data and see what the community thought. |
|
Green units spend one? Ooops, nothing left.
But I still stand by the rest.