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Post by gabus on Mar 25, 2010 21:38:24 GMT -5
Ok, putting this rant into perspective, I have played 3 games total. I am finding elements of the game frustrating, and with the increased popularity of the game around me, I WANT to like it.
The biggest one is that it seems far too easy to supress. Both of the most recent games, the 2 armies ended off squaring off against one another, both armies engage in suppression, and its a bogged down (and boring) standoff. Close combat characters and units become pointless, as they have no prayer of getting anywhere near a ranged unit, even using cover. (and we had tons of linear cover on the board tonight)
This is the biggest one for me so far. Other frustrations would be more appropriate on other threads so as not to muddy a discussion.
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Post by cerealkiller195 on Mar 25, 2010 21:47:45 GMT -5
As good as suppression might be, in our group we rarely use it. I know there is an "Over the Wire" which lets anyone with the "command" ability remove suppression from a unit. This makes models with command even MORE valuable than they are now and at the same time makes them prime targets.
Close Combat in AE WWII is both very deadly but very hard to get to as it should be, after all when units have guns they tend to shoot whatever is a threat. At the same time once a CC monster reaches a spot where he can actually assault I have seen them roll up flanks if played wisely.
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Post by Cilionelle on Mar 25, 2010 22:25:09 GMT -5
I found this too, but then realised that I was playing suppression wrong (I think). Suppression only lasts one activation. The suppressed unit is fired upon, moves to(wards) cover during their activation and then the next activation is taken normally. It's like a "Skip" card in Uno.
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Post by mkcontra on Mar 25, 2010 23:19:56 GMT -5
Cilionelle - that is correct. It only lasts 1 activation.
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Post by abbysdad on Mar 26, 2010 8:53:01 GMT -5
Cilionelle - that is correct. It only lasts 1 activation. Yes. It lasts only one activation. If that's confusing in the current rules text, let us know and we'll tighten up the language. The OTW's that deal with supression are Issue #6 (Suppression using Indirect Fire) and OTW #8 (Get Up and Shoot!). The text for "Get Up and Shoot" is copied below for convenience in the discussion: Any model with the command special ability also receives the ability to remove suppression from friendly units. All models with the command ability also receive the Get up and Shoot! ability. Get up and Shoot!: Ordering their troops to fight their fear, commanders can ensure that enemy covering fire won’t keep the soldiers under their command pinned down. For 2 AP a model with this ability can select a single unit within 12” and line of sight that is currently suppressed and remove the effects of suppression fire. The targeted unit immediately becomes unsuppressed and can act normally during their next activation. This ability does not make a unit immune to suppression and the unit can be suppressed again at any time. A model with this ability cannot use it on themselves or any unit to which they are attached. |
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Post by abbysdad on Mar 26, 2010 9:24:45 GMT -5
Close combat characters and units become pointless, as they have no prayer of getting anywhere near a ranged unit, even using cover. (and we had tons of linear cover on the board tonight) OK, close combat is a fun, but tougher, issue to figure out. You're right, even with decent cover on the board those guys can still get bogged down. But you can really put some hurt into people with CC in the game, you just have to use some strategery  Some simple examples: Close combat + dogs = win! The sturmaffe is scary, but he makes a big target and players will often try to draw him out and then shoot him to pieces. That's where the dogs come in. The kreighund and the sturmaffe work great together. Charge the dogs out of cover into combat. With their greater movement they can get into combat very quickly. You want them to stay there for a turn or so, and then follow up with the sturmaffe. Now, the enemy in the close combat are probably outnumbered, and they're frightened (reduced drive) which makes the sturmaffe's job easier to roll up the guys that are left. If the enemy decides to cut his losses and shoot into close combat, you've protected your sturmaffe because the randomized shot is much less likely to hit him with all of the other models in combat. Repeat as necessary. The unstoppable suicide soldier This is fun in infantry detachments with one or more heroes. As long as you won't lose too many benefits from a dead hero. Or if your hero is almost dead anyway. Take a brute. Charge him into combat with some nasty guys. He does his thing, maybe he's just into his unstoppable activation. While he's still tying up the enemy nasties in close combat, light him up with bazookas and RPG, anything with an AOE. The brute can't die! If you hit him you will still do damage to the enemy models in the combat and you lose nothing. Your guy was dead anyway. But now he's locked up a nasty unit for multiple turns and maybe you took out the nasties to boot. The best I've ever gotten from this trick is wading into combat against a sturmaffe and some skinnies. The brute lasted one turn, killing a single skinny by pure luck. Repeated machine gun and bazooka hits took out everyone else. I lost one point of drive and a hero. The other guy lost three models and everyone he needed to hold down a quarter of the table. Get on the bus! The motorized infantry detachment must have been made for close combat troops. Pick a troop transport. Load it up with your beasties. Draw out your enemy into the center of the board, or pick a route that will take you into their position. Get the bus in between the enemies covering fire and you, cutting off their fire lanes and possible charge lanes so that they have to sneak around the bus to get into combat or shoot at your guys. In the meantime, have your guys get out of the bus and beat on the unsuspecting troops. The coordinated attack and keep moving special orders help with this kind of ploy. This is good for skinnies, who sometimes have difficulty making it into combat on their terms. Tally Ho! Want a close combat monster that moves quickly and can tear through a model quickly? Kit up an MoAA agent or a SS Schutzcommando for close combat and make them a mounted hero. You will need to be careful about who you charge and when you charge but odds are very good that as long as the close combat is one on one for the first turn you will win by overwhelming your opponent with the CC and S bonuses. Bottom line, you need to set-up situations and combinations where close combat will work for you and frustrate your opponent. The WWII genre means that shooting is the preferred strategy for a lot of the troops because it has the least risk. If I shoot you when you're far away the chance of you hitting me back is small. If I hit you when you're standing right next to me, the chance of you smacking me back is much greater! But you can still get in a lot of nasty and fun surprises in close combat. There are a few things coming soon that will help with this too. The Superhero issue of OTW will be a fun addition. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with there. And the historical list coming out soon in OTW will give you guys a chance to play a faction that has a much different perspective on risk than the current roster of axis and allies in the fight. Feel free to post in the forum when you get stuck or want to kick around some theories. Good luck! Chris |
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Post by ogre44 on Mar 26, 2010 15:20:01 GMT -5
light him up with bazookas and RPG, anything with an AOE. The brute can't die! If you hit him you will still do damage to the enemy models in the combat and you lose nothing. Aren't all shooting hits into close combat randomized, including AOE hits? |
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Post by abbysdad on Mar 26, 2010 15:27:13 GMT -5
Yes.
The point is if you're counting on your guy to live through close combat, you wouldn't shoot into it. If your guy is already lost, you don't care. If your guy has unstoppable, he can't be removed until after his next acitvation.
And the AOE bit is to make sure that if you tag your guy because of the randomized hits you can still damage the other people in the combat from the shot.
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