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Post by dijit80 on Aug 27, 2010 7:57:34 GMT -5
Well I reckon that the pirate list seems to be the hardest to use, with crewmen as a necessity and with them having random equipment, making a quatermaster an almost necessity in order to have a little control over what equipment they get and so what use you can put them to. No use having Arges crewmen and getting stuck with LRFs or Rifles! Not much fun getting that double gear choice either.
I've been trying to make a pirate crew that feels good and so make the best of the problems they face. One option would be going for Phact crewmen as you always get to choose your kit, but two weapons shooting at -1 with an RC already at 5+ doesn't make a lot of sense. So I've gone for pollux, admittedly giving reluctant, but with the pirates able to take two leader characters it shouldn't (hopefully) be too problematic. The pollux does however give a -RC bonus pushing the crewmen up to RC 4+ and with 3 of them to each unit that's not too bad.
But here's the list:
Captain (Human - inspiring)
Particle Beam Rifle, Sword, Cloaking Field
Quartermaster (Nikkar)
Brute Hero Particle Beam Rifle, Sword, Grav Belt
First Mate (Human - inspiring)
Slug thrower rifle, Cloaking field
3x Crewmen (Pollux)
Dirty Trick - probably 'stand and take it' or 'stand your ground'
The idea is the captain and first mate baby sit the crewmen keeping them in line with command and inspiring, whilst they plus away at whatever bad guys come their way, whilst the Quartermaster is a mobile reserve/assault unit. The cloaking fields I've choosen over armour as it seems more effective from the games I've played so far (not done any maths behind it though)
Any comments or ideas?
Duncan
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Post by Darkson on Aug 28, 2010 17:47:40 GMT -5
I like the mix of Human and Aliens. Have you played any games with this crew yet?
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Post by dijit80 on Aug 29, 2010 2:00:45 GMT -5
Yes, I played the game that a few of the starship rules questions came up in with them, where due to the close confinement of the corridors the crewmen performed miserably, then after losing two units of crewmen and the captain, the rest fled. The Nikkar didn't even get in combat, so it was pretty much a massacre. So I might have to go back to the drawing board with them, but will give them a few more games first. Another alternative would be to make them all Arges and just launch them head long at the enemy hoping that they'll make it into close combat.
Duncan
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Post by dijit80 on Aug 29, 2010 14:02:19 GMT -5
Well I've just had my second game with them and lost again due to them turning tail and running. Their Dr starts dropping real fast and with the first mate having the same Dr as the crewmen means he doesn't help that much. The Nikkar Brute Quartermaster performed better getting in combat and slaying a Headhunter, but seems rather a heavy investment for just that one kill, when the rest of the crew run and him and the captain follow short afterwards. I think it might be back to drawing board with this one, I can't see a way of making it work - crewmen suck BIG TIME!
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Post by macnam on Aug 30, 2010 8:37:46 GMT -5
Depends on what you're using them for. Go look at my Zonn's Mindbreakers thread. I took two Quartermasters specifically to ensure I'd get two equipment choices.
Double-LRF Phact are one of the best suppression engines in the game, and suppressive fire wins fights pretty regularly. Your RC doesn't matter at all when you're never rolling to hit anyway.
Have you played any scenarios where the primary objective involved moving loot? They're a lot better there, especially against Bounty Hunters (who struggle to find anyone to spare for mule duty). They're also useful for swamping enemies in melee (well, not Headtakers/Duellists), blocking corridors (briefly), and providing you with dead bodies for your own Bounty objective.
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Post by dijit80 on Aug 30, 2010 14:30:17 GMT -5
Depends on what you're using them for. Go look at my Zonn's Mindbreakers thread. I took two Quartermasters specifically to ensure I'd get two equipment choices. True and a very mean crew it is too! I've been looking at it again, there's not much between Quartermasters and First mates profile wise, the big difference is being able to equip your crewmen or bolstering your morale. Neither of them are exactly killing machines, but are reasonably passable all-rounders. Have you tried the Mindbreakers yet? If so how did they fare? Double-LRF Phact are one of the best suppression engines in the game, and suppressive fire wins fights pretty regularly. Your RC doesn't matter at all when you're never rolling to hit anyway. Yes I see your point, just getting into the AE games I'm still getting used to using suppression. Most of the shooting so far has been shooting to kill, but stopping a unit from returning firing can be almost as effective as taking them out and substancially easier as you say! Maybe I ought to run a Phact unit just to try them out next time I have a game, together with a Arges assault unit. [quote author=macnam board=pirates thread=2634 post=24829 time=1283175466 Have you played any scenarios where the primary objective involved moving loot? They're a lot better there, especially against Bounty Hunters (who struggle to find anyone to spare for mule duty). They're also useful for swamping enemies in melee (well, not Headtakers/Duellists), blocking corridors (briefly), and providing you with dead bodies for your own Bounty objective.[/quote] So far only one game I've played has had Bounty Hunters, the others have mainly been Mercs vs Mercs (it seems to most versatile list) or Mercs vs Pirates. Gathering loot won me the only game I've won with pirates so far, but it's making them have another use than just running around that I'm after, especially as none of the other meatier options in the pirate list especially lend themselves to being a Hammer to strike against the crewman anvil. I'd be really interested in hearing what pirate crews some of the playtesters ran, they must have come with some tricks. Duncan |
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Post by macnam on Aug 30, 2010 16:38:13 GMT -5
Proxied them once, against a relatively inexperienced player. They slaughtered his Merc crew horribly, mostly because he was a little too clumped up and I managed to chain-detonate 5 of the 9 crewmen in positions where each blast was catching 3 or more enemies apiece. Cost me some DR losses but I killed half his models including the sergeant hero in one activation - and I made my Bounty objective at the same time, since two of the numerous casualties had apparently hit the ATM just before battle. He won't make that mistake again, but I did warn him in advance what the crew was designed to do.
I'd say "Suicide Bomber" (the teleporter's optional) is a perfectly viable use for Pirate Crewmen. You've got the numbers, you can guarantee an equipment slot just by taking the right race or a Quartermaster, and the Pirate Bounty condition doesn't care who dies, just that there are lots of bodies to loot. It could even be combined with the "Suppression Team" and/or "Melee Swarm" roles if you get the right gear - and we know those work to a degree already.
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Post by dijit80 on Aug 31, 2010 5:57:03 GMT -5
It certainly is a very appealing tactic - who doesn't like big explosions! Even if it is a bit of a one trick pony. I've also been contemplating the Arges assault swarm. Though berserk could be problematic with crewmen if they are closer to each other than their enemy when their Dr hits 0. Though maybe Nikkar assault units would be better, their higher S means they are likely to wound anything and when equipped with pikes and using focused attack in a swarm they should be able to take down most things. hmmmm, with that thought I might have to try that. Time to come with another list I think.
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Post by macnam on Aug 31, 2010 16:21:09 GMT -5
It certainly is a very appealing tactic - who doesn't like big explosions! Even if it is a bit of a one trick pony. Also works badly in campaigns, since you'll all be KIA after booming. The Mindbreakers don't have to explode themselves to be effective, though - massed psychic attacks are another decent use for (mentalist) Crewmen, and you can always decide not to boom when killed if the exchange isn't in your favor. Certainly a drawback, but you should be doing your best to be in melee all the time anyway. It's worth remembering they have Unstoppable too, which produces an extra turn of activity when killed - and delays them being counted as dead for purposes of reducing DR on other units, too. It also gives you a turn after losing your last wound to move into optimal position before your Self-Destruct Device goes off.  Two words: Armor one. If you get there you're a menace, but a stiff breeze knocks you over. At least sure-footed helps you move through cover. |
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Post by cerealkiller195 on Aug 31, 2010 22:19:21 GMT -5
i have been thinking up of running an all human pirate crew hoping that apathetic carries me through drive wise.
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Post by dijit80 on Sept 1, 2010 5:18:39 GMT -5
Certainly a drawback, but you should be doing your best to be in melee all the time anyway. It's worth remembering they have Unstoppable too, which produces an extra turn of activity when killed - and delays them being counted as dead for purposes of reducing DR on other units, too. It also gives you a turn after losing your last wound to move into optimal position before your Self-Destruct Device goes off. True, I think might be tempted to give them pikes and Adrenaline boosters. They're berserk anyway and the extra wound and S would help make them more dangerous. It's a pity there aren't a few more CC or Rc types that aren't so severely handicapped. Two words: Armor one. If you get there you're a menace, but a stiff breeze knocks you over. At least sure-footed helps you move through cover. Yes exactly the main reason why I've been avoiding before now, though by giving them redundant internal organs you could increase their surivability a bit, though that doesn't help their morale too much, another option would be the cloaking field to keep some of those shots off them. But it just might not work at all. |
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Post by dijit80 on Sept 1, 2010 5:20:48 GMT -5
i have been thinking up of running an all human pirate crew hoping that apathetic carries me through drive wise. That is another option I've considered, not played it though. My problem with it is making the crewmen dangerous enough to be a threat as there just seems to lack any punch in the list. |
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