Hunting down the scientists

[malika]

Okay, I was watching this documentary on National Geographic Channel last night which was about American soldiers moving deep into Germany to find important German scientists to bring to the US.

Now this brought me to a pulpy idea, I assume that the Americans dont really have a presence in Germany yet, the same goes for the Russians. So small elite units of Russians and Americans secretly try to move deep into Germany to kidnap scientists who have the know-how on jetcraft, nuclear energy, etc etc etc.

It would be a campaign which might even have a RPG like character, starting the Russians and Americans try to enter Germany, these could be small battles against German troops. Deeper into Germany the missions would be to gather more supplies/intelligence ending with several battles in which they have to kidnap the scientists.

Now since these are secret missions it would also give us a chance to see the Russians fight against the Americans for scientists, a great threeway (potential 3 player battles) campaign.

[skorzeny]

The recent 'Team Zero' comic explored just this topic. Really well done, i thought.

[malika]

You have a link or something to that? Sounds interesting!

[xeoran]

Sounds interesting, links Skorenzy? Thanks. My only fault would be what Americxan forces. I think we need to invent as special American/Allied occult organisation with its own forces and agents as the only agents (I know of, please educate me if I'm wrong) in Germany itself were SOE.

[malika]

These Americans would be commandos or something along the lines of the US 101st. They dont have to be super duper elite troops, just experienced and skilled soldiers and I do think the US could have offered those. Perhaps a British character who joins the Americans or something?

The Russians would have a unit of veterans assigned to this, mostly snipers (with those mechanical eyes) but of course also armed with other weapons.

Note that this would be mostly focussed on hunting down important scientists and also some occultists, but we dont need a Hellboy like organisation dealing with these missions (only as support perhaps)

The occult organisation is sometihng we should look into in another thread perhaps, it would be cool to see a detailed article about that.

[xeoran]

But my view is they dont have to be super but they do need certain skills- languages, bushcraft, intiative etc. The 101st while a good unit are also hardly subtle....

[malika]

We could have a unit which has been formed by "elite" figures from various branches of the US military. You could have for example a soldier from the 101st and an officer from somewhere else...etc etc.

[xeoran]

So basicly an elite unit that takes soldiers from other units- comparable to the SAS but more intelligence based.

[malika]

They are not performing intelligence missions, they are supposed to kidnap people and bring them to allied controlled territory. So while they need some subtlety, they should also have the sort of thug mentality.

IIRC the SAS was an alone standing military organisation of the British military. I wanted this unit to be just formed for this campaign/missions and that after this is finished the men would be placed back into their original units or be transferred somewhere else.

[xeoran]

So you mean kind of like the Deathwatch from 40K? That has the trouble that whilst you get very good soldiers in individual units if there is an emergency you are left without these troops. Moreover these soldiers would probably need or go through extra training that would make a formalised permanent unit more viable and tactically superior (not that you couldnt attach such soldiers singly to units). After all the SAS specialised in one form of warfare and chose men from all regiments, to disband them at the end of every mission would be ludicrous. Also any specialised equipment used would mean time was taken to train these soldiers- having them die with their parent units is a waste of this training.

As it is the problem is they need intellignece to find out where the scientists are- and they need subtelty to get there and out. After all if our battle lines in the Western Front are halfway through France/Low Coutries stabilising on the Ardennes region and the scientists are all (sensibly) in the German Heartland then these soldiers need to trek quite far in and out whilst avoiding enemy troops, finding the area/scientist, planning the mission etc.

[malika]

So you mean kind of like the Deathwatch from 40K?

That is also a bit too extreme since that is a chapter which takes elements from all the chapters, imagine it more like a single Deathwatch tactical squad for a single campaign.

That has the trouble that whilst you get very good soldiers in individual units if there is an emergency you are left without these troops. Moreover these soldiers would probably need or go through extra training that would make a formalised permanent unit more viable and tactically superior (not that you couldnt attach such soldiers singly to units). After all the SAS specialised in one form of warfare and chose men from all regiments, to disband them at the end of every mission would be ludicrous. Also any specialised equipment used would mean time was taken to train these soldiers- having them die with their parent units is a waste of this training.

Imagine them as sort of the Dirty Dozen, but then without being criminals.

As it is the problem is they need intellignece to find out where the scientists are- and they need subtelty to get there and out. After all if our battle lines in the Western Front are halfway through France/Low Coutries stabilising on the Ardennes region and the scientists are all (sensibly) in the German Heartland then these soldiers need to trek quite far in and out whilst avoiding enemy troops, finding the area/scientist, planning the mission etc.

The intelligence gathering would be something from the background, and would be performed by other agents (mostly British and Russian I assume) who have infiltrated German society.

[xeoran]

A single squad? Seems a bit..silly. After all if they take any casulties they quickly become useless, also there is no common training ground or area so what you basicly get is grunts, unfamiliar with each other against enemies on whom the only knowledge they have is a single briefing or so? I mean you need at least a unified command, a training ground and some form of intelligence. Heres why;
1. No command means nobody knows whats going on, they cannot organise anything. Also means that it quickly becomes confusing (who leads? Who leads if the first leader dies- hell who calls for a unit to be created).
2. No training means they are unfamiliar with their specialist weapons, their comrades and their methods. After all a SEAL and a Para fight in very different ways so if the mission requires parachuting the SEAL is screwed and if it involves sea operations the Para is screwed. They all need to be trained in the smae methods as each other.
3. No intelligence doesnt work. Local intelligence comes from where? They have to borrow intelligence and thats not good. After all imaging the British have intel on a scientist, they want to assassinate him to stop him being used. This has a 95% chance of sucess. The Americans though want to capture the scientist, they only have a 50% chance of sucess, if they fail then a doomsday weapon will be completed and used. Will the Brits hand over the intel, hell no! Inter agency co-operation is always difficult.

[malika]

A single squad? Seems a bit..silly.

Well how big formation do you think will be able to succesfully infiltrate Germany and kidnap these figures? An entire platoon?

After all if they take any casulties they quickly become useless,

Doesnt the same go for secret agents deep in enemy territory?

also there is no common training ground or area so what you basicly get is grunts,

No..the US high command looks at the files of the best they got and they pick a group of them from various departments of the US military.

unfamiliar with each other against enemies on whom the only knowledge they have is a single briefing or so?

They will receive training together before they go, however its classified, so it will be done at a secret location or whatever.

I mean you need at least a unified command, a training ground and some form of intelligence. Heres why;

I never said that such a thing wouldnt be there

Will the Brits hand over the intel, hell no! Inter agency co-operation is always difficult.

Why not? They work together on this! Heck I could even see British members joining this unit/formation.

Its like this, the men are picked out by the high command (or whatever its called) and are transferred to a training facility where they will train together and receive a detailed intel briefing, then after being done with the training (I assume that will take several weeks) they will be deployed in Germany from where they have to move deep into that territory and capture the targets.

[xeoran]

No a platoon couldnt do it but there should be at least a company of men on that front doing various missions and providing support. Or who drives their vehicles, keeps them going, sorts their equipment, makes them food, finds the billets...). Only a squad may do the infiltrating but they need lots of logistics. Of course it depends on how well the place is guarded or whats in their way...

Secret agents are throwaways and usually one or two men. Not only that but they can be replced with ease. Anyway they can sneak, a squad cant- particually if its made up of unsubtle thugs like you descibe...If they want to fight their way in then losing men becomes very important.

Yes, high quality troops who have no experience of working together. That lowers their potential quite a bit.

If there is a training ground then again you need logistics and command staff to organise that. Hence they are not just a lone squad.

Umm...the whole point of the British example was that from theirpoint of view it should be the Americans helping them....I can see Brits joining yes but I was merely exposing the difficulties in the intelligence world. The unit would need an intelligence service of its own and someone with experience to persuade and badger other intelligence groups.

From your final descriptio- OK- so why not make them a permanent unit?

[malika]

No a platoon couldnt do it but there should be at least a company of men on that front doing various missions and providing support. Or who drives their vehicles, keeps them going, sorts their equipment, makes them food, finds the billets...). Only a squad may do the infiltrating but they need lots of logistics. Of course it depends on how well the place is guarded or whats in their way...

its too much stuff there. I assume the unit would have to find their own means of transport (disguised as Germans for example) and try to survive on their own. Realise that the Allies are very desperate here since the war keeps on going and they dont have the upperhand, hence they try to take out the German scientists (either kill them or kidnap them)

Anyway they can sneak, a squad cant- particually if its made up of unsubtle thugs like you descibe...If they want to fight their way in then losing men becomes very important.

Dress a bunch of German speaking thugs up in Nazi uniforms and false documents and you are a bit further. There will of course be minor battles in which losses have to be avoided, its more a campaign of stealth.

Yes, high quality troops who have no experience of working together. That lowers their potential quite a bit.

If there is a training ground then again you need logistics and command staff to organise that. Hence they are not just a lone squad.

But they are also not some organisation, the Allied high command has simply ordered these men to do a mission and trains them for it, they will not form a new military branch or whatever.

Umm...the whole point of the British example was that from theirpoint of view it should be the Americans helping them....I can see Brits joining yes but I was merely exposing the difficulties in the intelligence world. The unit would need an intelligence service of its own and someone with experience to persuade and badger other intelligence groups.

From your final descriptio- OK- so why not make them a permanent unit?

It was more a collaboration between the two, the British and Americans would share the "profits" from these missions. But a permanent unit would be ok, but they are not like an official branch of the military. Officially they dont exist.