Lend Lease and Looting?

[xeoran]

Just a thought but will we maintain lend lease? This would allow Russian (and to a degree British) forces to use the main US tanks (actually most tanks then as the US was not known for specialised tanks.) and aircraft?

In a similar vein and again with historical precedent will we have looted tanks- German forces occassionally used Allied tanks and both German and Axis forces used captured or repaired enemy tanks.

[myincubliss]

i'd imagine that the borowed / repaired tanks (go salvage force!) would primarily be a modelling opportunity rather than something core... although it does give the opportunity for a set of pieces that can be used to 'upgrade' (downgrade?) existing tank kits...

[xeoran]

Modelling opportunity for sure- usually I'd imagine you would use say a Sherman kit and add German decals and equipment.Could be very fun.

[skorzeny]

Soviets also tended to use captured German equipment. The only folks who didn't seem to be the US and Britain and the Japanese, who insisted on using their own materials and designs even when they were shown to be technologically inferior. *Hint - Self-sealing fuel systems on aircraft*.

I think looting would be a very cool thing to put into the game in some shape or form, though perhaps imposing some sort of negative due to the foreign crew's improvised training on their 'new' equipment. More esoteric weaponry though, like robots and maybe power armor, should probably stay the province of whatever force is fielding them.

[xeoran]

Well the Japs never needed to as tanks werent a big part of their war. The Brits and Yanks didnt because of course they didnt need to! Not with the US manufacturing capabilities anyway. (anyway Allied technology was usually far better than Axis- Meteor vs Me 262, Panzer IV vs Sherman/Churchill etc).

Looting would certainly rock in campaign mode (though of course to keep it historical and fair they cant repair very well [no spare parts], they find it harder to use [not trained on it] and its more liable to break down). Only on the most obvious stuff though- like Shermans or T-34's and not estoric kit like King Tiger tanks.

[myincubliss]

i agree with skorenzy - it could end up in the future where 'tourney' armies consist of the best giant robots from each force put together in one army to stomp things (fluff? what's that? i just came to stomp...) if free reign were allowed. which would be a bit grim.

[tordenskjold]

Have to agree with the opposition, could make it very difficult to make the factions balanced. Worst case scenario would be something like the first editions of WH40K, where everything could be mixed no matter how fluff-wise impossible it seemed (Orks mounted in a landraider is just one exampel!)

[xeoran]

Oh no, I would keep it historical. So sure they can patch them up but they break down, are less effective and only the worst tanks can be patched up (ie they could only patch up the equivalent of a Sherman).

[tordenskjold]

Again, I must disagree with that idea, the worst tanks would usally be made of the worst materials and/or be the worst made (when you need several thousand tanks in a hurry the quality of the individual tanks tends to be lacking) and so would be the hardest to patch up.

[skorzeny]

However, historically, these were also the ones thate were most often employed, if simply because there were so many knocked out that mechanics could canabalize several M4s to get one back up and running. The Germans in particular were notorious for using captured equipment. Again, after Kasserine Pass, Rommel's forces had more American equipment than they did German equipment in use.

[xeoran]

Actually Shermans, T-34's etc were easier as they are very uncomplicated as oppossed to say a Tiger tank which was near impossible to run even for the Germans at times! There are plentiful pictures/accounts of T-34's and Shermans being used by the oppossing side.

[unknowntales]

Captured equipment was used by all sides. Several model companies sell their versions with decals for German and Russian tanks. You can even purchase a Grant with German markings. Looting on the otherhand is more difficult, parts don't always fit. Who would ever think of usinf a King Tiger's fuel filter on anything...leaks more than a broken faucet!

[xeoran]

Looting sounds more like infantry nicking each others weapons (who wants a Mauser when he can have a tommy gun?!)

[baphomael]

xeoran said:

Actually Shermans, T-34's etc were easier as they are very uncomplicated as oppossed to say a Tiger tank which was near impossible to run even for the Germans at times! There are plentiful pictures/accounts of T-34's and Shermans being used by the oppossing side.

Yeap, they were designed to drive like civilian tractors - afterall it would be ignorant farmer-boys that were expected to drive them. Everything about the USSR was aimed at practicality - cheap n' cheerful. It had to be simple enough for a peasant to pick up and use straight away. Likewise American troops were coming from all over a massive country with varying degrees of education. Naturally Russian and American tanks made sense when being "borrowed" by the enemy - anyone could pick up the basics.

(an interesting, if only slightly related point, a certain modern Norwegian tank was designed to have an internal driver's layout pretty much the same as a civilian car. They new most of the people who would be driving them would be out-of-school conscripts doing their national service and likely they would already know how to drive - saves a whole lot of training if they already know how to drive the tank too )

[xeoran]

baphomael said:

Yeap, they were designed to drive like civilian tractors - afterall it would be ignorant farmer-boys that were expected to drive them. Everything about the USSR was aimed at practicality - cheap n' cheerful. It had to be simple enough for a peasant to pick up and use straight away. Likewise American troops were coming from all over a massive country with varying degrees of education. Naturally Russian and American tanks made sense when being "borrowed" by the enemy - anyone could pick up the basics.

(an interesting, if only slightly related point, a certain modern Norwegian tank was designed to have an internal driver's layout pretty much the same as a civilian car. They new most of the people who would be driving them would be out-of-school conscripts doing their national service and likely they would already know how to drive - saves a whole lot of training if they already know how to drive the tank too )

That car idea might be interesting for some of the Soviet tanks. (imagine a Trabi tank! )