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Post by macnam on Aug 7, 2010 19:25:35 GMT -5
When making a melee attack without a specific weapon using your basic CC & S scores (an "unarmed attack" although it could just as easily be a club, knife, wrench, etc), does the attack count as non-lethal if desired?
I'm guessing you can opt to punch someone out without killing them, but it's not explicitly stated. The fact that most melee weapons are specifically stated to be "lethal only" seems to imply that the reverse is the default. It would also be helpful for scenarios, since any model would be able to score a knockout by simply not using their sword, pike, etc.
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Post by Cilionelle on Aug 7, 2010 21:26:09 GMT -5
I agree. I'd think that marking something as lethal only implies that other melée attacks can be either/or.
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Post by dijit80 on Aug 8, 2010 3:50:34 GMT -5
Ditto to Cilionelle.
Duncan
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Post by abbysdad on Aug 8, 2010 12:14:46 GMT -5
Ditto to Cilionelle. Duncan That's correct. You always have the option of making an attack with your fists. Unless a rules states otherwise, the bare knuckled attack is non lethal. |
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Post by silentbob27 on Aug 8, 2010 18:03:01 GMT -5
Ditto to Cilionelle. Duncan That's correct. You always have the option of making an attack with your fists. Unless a rules states otherwise, the bare knuckled attack is non lethal. Lethal – Lethal models are skilled killers, able to inflict mortal wounds with any weapon. Models with this ability increase the Strength of any attack they make by two. So if the model was lethal (like an assassin Hero) EVERY attack MUST be lethal, going by the definition of lethal. It doesnt say MAY increase, so it is always on, right? |
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Post by macnam on Aug 8, 2010 18:54:27 GMT -5
That's correct. You always have the option of making an attack with your fists. Unless a rules states otherwise, the bare knuckled attack is non lethal. Lethal – Lethal models are skilled killers, able to inflict mortal wounds with any weapon. Models with this ability increase the Strength of any attack they make by two. So if the model was lethal (like an assassin Hero) EVERY attack MUST be lethal, going by the definition of lethal. It doesnt say MAY increase, so it is always on, right? Not relevant to the original question. Lethal (the unit trait) doesn't override or change Non-Lethal (the weapon trait). You probably do have to add the +2 strength to all your attacks, but that doesn't mean your Non-Lethal weapons can't still score a capture for Bounty purposes - and the NL weapon will get a +2 strength from the unit trait. Presumably your electrolaser-toting assassin bounty hunter has gotten very skilled at stunning headshots or somesuch. It was probably a poor choice to use such similar terms for two very different traits that really have nothing to do with one another, but that's what happens when you don't keep a thesaurus handy. It's also apparently confusing that some weapons (eg sword, pike) are referred to as being lethal (lower-case) when they don't actually have the trait Lethal (upper-case) - swords do NOT have +2 strength on top of their regular bonus. The question remains as to whether "unarmed" attacks (which really aren't defined in game terms) are intended to have the Non-Lethal trait, but it seems likely that they do. |
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Post by Cilionelle on Aug 8, 2010 22:33:27 GMT -5
The difference is this:
Lethal as in 'can kill', marked with a lower case 'l' in the rules. Opposed by non-lethal.
Lethal, the trait, meaning +2 to the strength of attacks.
They are different things.
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Post by Scorpio on Aug 11, 2010 13:55:28 GMT -5
It was probably a poor choice to use such similar terms for two very different traits that really have nothing to do with one another, but that's what happens when you don't keep a thesaurus handy. Oh, snap. I totally blame the former English major on the playtesting team for missing that one. (i.e., me.) |
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Post by macnam on Aug 11, 2010 20:23:22 GMT -5
It was probably a poor choice to use such similar terms for two very different traits that really have nothing to do with one another, but that's what happens when you don't keep a thesaurus handy. Oh, snap. I totally blame the former English major on the playtesting team for missing that one. (i.e., me.) I'd suggest "Punishing" as a replacement for "Lethal" if you get around to doing a second edition. Of course, if the intent was to make the Lethal trait NOT work with Non-Lethal atttacks, then it's fine as is - but the rules need text stating that explicitly. |
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Post by mkcontra on Aug 12, 2010 11:33:33 GMT -5
The difference is this: Lethal as in 'can kill', marked with a lower case 'l' in the rules. Opposed by non-lethal. Lethal, the trait, meaning +2 to the strength of attacks. They are different things. +1 |
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