Alternative detachment building

[dijit80]

I’ve been looking at the detachment building rules and been quite unsatisfied with them, particularly for building more historical units where a mish-mash of different elements would be very uncommon (Volkssturm and regular wehrmacht or Airbourne and GIs). So in a effort to do something different I started looking at different ways of doing it, whilst still having Darkson’s core principle of a points less game.
Using the Requisition Points on page 86 of the Rulebook as a starting principle I went through the different detachments available and came with the following:

Cavalry - 150RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order (including two vehicles)
Command - 170RP + 2 Heroes + 2 Special Orders
Experimental - 150RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order (plus restrictions lifted)
Infantry - 160RP + 1 Hero + 2 Special Orders
Motorised Infantry - 150RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order
Reconnaisance - 170RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order
Support - 150RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order (plus support restriction lifted)
Veteran - 180RP + 1 Hero + 1 Special Order

Using this a basic structure I now had something to work with and write an alternative way of building a detachment below. I’d be interested to hear what you think and whether it’s worth trying out? Is there anything missing? And does it look to give balanced forces?

Alternative Detachment Rules
Each detachment has 170 Requisition Points (page 86) in addition to having 1 Hero and 1 Special Order. Players can build a detachment using these requisition points to purchase the units they wish. Each detachment is restricted as normal where a unit requires a special unit to unlock it then that must also be taken. Each detachment may not include more than one vehicle unless the bonus below has been purchased. A detachment may take a Light Tank at 70 RP or a Medium Tank at 90 RP and by taking the ‘Medium Tank’ Special Order. Heavy Tanks cost 100RP and give the opponent a free Special Order and may only be used in Planned Missions.
Each player can also spend 10 RP to unlock one of the following:
1. Have a second vehicle (no detachment may have more than two)
2. Gain a second or third Hero
3. Lift any restrictions on experimental technology
4. Allow the player to select one support unit for every infantry unit
5. Gain a second or third Special Order
6. Select one tank option

[abbysdad]

Well, it's different. Try it with some friends and see what you think. Let us know what you find out.

I think building multiple detachments with the current rules and using them together is one way to get close to what you're looking for. However, this is not Flames of War. The type of skirmish scale to platoon level engagements in AE-WW2 aren't intended to represent the type of vehicles and support available at the company level.

All the best,

Chris

[dijit80]

I'm not after somehting like FoW, but just looking to be able to have a squad of Panzergrenadiers with a SDkfz 250 or 251 (without green units), or a russian conscript horde (with loads of green units). If the WWII is to remain in AE-WWII (as has been said in other threads) then purely historical units have to be able to be built using them, which right now isn't always possible.
How do you build a panzergrenadier squad (yes you can take motorised infantry, upgrade the vehicle to medium, but that still leaves you with green units that just don't fit, the same goes for American armoured infantry in M2 halftracks.
Maybe including the tanks was misleading, but as they were featured in the tanks OTW I included them too. I'm not trying to get FoW in 28mm scale for that I'd use IABSM. I just feel frustrated by the present templates available in AE-WWII.

[mkcontra]

I think you're confusing the idea of 'keeping the wwII'. Being able to construct, play, and represent historical forces doesn't mean they need to be exactly simulated 1:1. At the end of the day, it's a game and not a re-creation, and some abstraction is to be expected to maintain balance (thus fun). Not to say that the detachments are perfectly balanced and there's no other solution; I have no data one way or the other.

Anyways, and you've touched on this elsewhere, why don't the green units 'fit'? Are you basically saying you wish you could have a vehicle with a Veteran Detachment's spread of training levels? That's fine, just set up a game with your opponent where you get a vehicle and compensate the other side with something you deem equivalent...

[noblehero]

For a squad of panzergrenadiers with no green units, how about:

German Officer - Elite Hero
Wehrmacht Squad - Veteran
Wehrmacht Squad - Veteran
Wehrmacht Heavy Weapons w/ MG42 or Panzerschreck - Regular (for support)
Sdkfz 250/3 Halftrack

This is a legal Command Detachment.
Or better yet, swap out of the above units for the Sniper since the Command Detachment gets two Hero selections and the Sniper Assassin is just nasty.


In my opinion, one of the best things about AE-WWII is the detachment system. It is almost infinitely flexible in allowing you to build the kind of unit that you want. I think that it would be a mistake to throw that away and implement a point buy system instead.

[skorzeny]

What he means is building the detachment using historical squad sizes. German squads, for example, would number between 9 and 13 men. American squads were ten men.

For game purposes, such an exacting level of detail was, in this case, unattainable within the scope of maintaining a sense of balance. After all, one for one, a German soldier could usually outfight anybody else in the ETO - it was the fact he had ten Russians for every one of his that caused problems.

Then there is a bit of impracticality going on with the original posting. This is set in 1946. The odds of still finding any unit with its original troops intact is ridiculously high. hence you would have a mixture of training levels, from that grizzled old elite guy who fought in North Africa to the young punk who just got recruited out of the Hitler Youth in Bremen. The labels of 'Volkssturm' and 'Wehrmacht' are easy reference for troops types, but you can easily call them the same thing (in fact, we'll be altering the present Volksturm to be Volksgrenadiers down the road when we introduce some 'rabble' rules to more accurately reflect irregular units like Maquisards, Volksturm and just about anything calling themselves Chinese soldiers).

[dijit80]

Thanks Skorzeny I think you got my point, and I guess you're right that by 1946, many units wouldn't continue being in the high level of form that earlier units were.
Duncan

[skorzeny]

Well, what really drove the concept home for me was looking at some casualty figures for the Wehrmacht over the course of Barbarosa in its first year. Alot of these crack units that had been in the fighting since Poland had sustained such enormous losses that they were the same units only on papper by the Winter of 1942. You'd be lucky if there was one guy in the entire regiment who had been involved in the invasion of France - hell, by the time we get to Normandy, alot of 'German' divisions were made up of Danes, Romanians, Hungarians, Poles, pretty much anybody the Reich could convince to put on a feldgrau uniform. The infamous Malmedy Massacre was largely Romanian soldiers, not Germans, behind the machine guns.

[xGIxJOKERx]

You could also do what I did and just use the rules you want with the models you want. For example, I wanted basic British Infantry, not Paratroopers but I also wanted to use the better stats that comes with the Paras so I just used the models for Tommies in groups of two to represent more seasoned troops. Later if I want some greens, I can use the same models in groups of three and maybe paint some chevrons or something on the ones using the rules for Paras. I did this for the same reason you seem to have a problem with the current system as I didn't want a mixed squad of PBI and Paratroopers.