Werewolves!

[anaxagorax]

As a rabid fan of everything even remotely werewolf related I was very delighted to read the new OTW. Packed with werewolf-y goodness (and BANE for that matter!), this has got to be the best issue yet, thumbs up guys!

There's a couple of things I want to make sure of before I unleash the brigade though.

There are mentions of 'detachments made of all werewolves...', but as far as I can tell it is not possible.

The Werewolf Pack Leader's Wolf Master states that 50% of the Detachment must be made up of Russian SS before he is available. The only units that meet that requirement are Russian SS, Russian SS Heavy Weapon Team and Russian SS Scharführer, not even the Conscripts are designated as Russian SS.

As an example, a Detachment with 1 Elite, 1 Veteran, 3 Regular and 2 Green must include 3 Russian SS units to get the Pack Leader. There are no Green units I can use to fulfill the requirements, so I sacrifice one of them to make the other a Regular. I can now fill 3 Regular with Russian SS units, get the Pack Leader as the Elite and now only have a Veteran and a Regular slot left to actually get me some werewolves and wolfchen.

I hope I'm missing something somewhere, that all of the entries, or at least the Green Conscripts, are supposed to be designated Russian SS or something, because I would really like to field a werewolf detachment and not have to drag too many or even some of those puny hairless russians with them.

If I made a Detachment with the SS list I could include the same amount of werewolves, of course without the cool Pack Leader or the Wolfchens, but with the Schutzkommando and Krieghexe, which are not to be scoffed at either. Or the Schutzkommando and Krieghexe could be used as allies in a Brigade list to unlock the Pack Leader without the Russian SS requirements perhaps.

Now to go back staring at the mailbox and wait for my werewolf heads to arrive and make sinister plans on how to get you to make more werewolf models.

[skorzeny]

You build the detachment as an Occult Detachment... that's how you get your overflow of monsters. The special way to unlock a Pack Leader is for when you use the Kaminski Brigade with, say, a Command detachment or similar 'normal' detachment.

[anaxagorax]

But the Occult Detachment doesn't allow you to ignore the restrictions on Occult or Supernatural units, you still need to unlock them somehow.

It just gives the Pack Leader an additional unlocked Supernatural unit, but you still need to meet the requirements for being able to take him in the first place, either a Krieghexe or 50% Russian SS (the Wolf Master rule that gives you permission to take him without a Supernatural Slot).

In fact, using an Occult Detachment is rather pointless, as it has exactly the Slots I've described in my example in the first post and the Pack Leader will be unable to take advantage of the extra Supernatural Slot before every available Slot is already filled.

[fattdex]

I believe the conscripts and conscript heavy weapons teams are supposed to be included in the 50% Russian SS requirement. They are not the same as regular German SS green troops, they have different rules and are described as Russians in the fluff text in the unit entry (but just not specifically labeled SS Russian Conscript in the unit header)

You don't need a krieghexe to take the werewolf pack leader as far as I can determine- he does not have a master unlocking unit assigned to it?

And yeah I'm having a hard time figuring out any way to have 100% wolves!

A green unit of an actual wolf pack would have been good for that (useable if you take a werewolf pack leader and use him as a handler)

But an animal master hero type with pet wolves would be pretty sweet for a pack master (don't have book here cannot remember the actual hero name)

[abbysdad]

The wolf pack option is coming, but not for the SS...Clint has some surprises for you guys in the future. We thought about it for the Brigade, but the background makes these soldiers too feral and undisciplined to keep animals.

Also, there's a good chance that the Kaminski Brigade will not be the only wolfie sub-faction. You'll just have to wait for the European theatre expansion to find out more about that. But there's a hint of it in the current background for the RONA right now.

I'll post some of the lists I made for testing. I never went 100% wolf because of the inherent weaknesses I'm that kind of a list.

[fattdex]

Ok another confused question- in the brigade text it says that a wolf pack leafer may always be taken even if detachment does not allow supernatural units, and under wolf pack leader it says that and also adds that 50% russian ss units must be taken, so i am confused as to how it all works a bit. Do you still need 50% russkies even in a spooky detachment?

[skorzeny]

It is an either/or situation. Either have an open supernatural being slot or take 50% Russian SS. The intention was never to have an all-wolf detachment, just a much higher ratio of mundane to weird units involved.

As for normal wolves... they wouldn't have anything to do with these monsters. The SS breed of werewolf is just as repugnant to wolves as they are to humans.

So, for an Occult Detachment built as a Kaminski Brigade, you would be able to take your Pack Leader as the basic Supernatural Being choice offered by the detachment (note - the Pack Leader has no 'unlocking unit'). Once you have him, the Occult Detachment allows him one more Supernatural Being choice than normal, that means an Elite Werewolf Pack Leader would give you four additional Supernatural Being choices (all of which must be Werewolves or Wolfchen).

Hence, this detachment could have:

1. Werewolf Pack Leader (Elite)
2. Wolfchen Squad (Regular)
3. wolfchen Squad (Regular)
4. SS Werewolf der Kaminski (Veteran)
5. SS Werewolf der Kaminski (Regular)

This leaves two Green Slots which could be used either for some SS Conscripts or to up the TL of either the Wolfchen or the regular Werewolf.

[anaxagorax]

Nov 3, 2010 3:34:37 GMT -5 skorzeny said:

So, for an Occult Detachment built as a Kaminski Brigade, you would be able to take your Pack Leader as the basic Supernatural Being choice offered by the detachment (note - the Pack Leader has no 'unlocking unit').

As the rules are, you cannot do that and the list you have posted is not legal. Though it might be the intention, there is no Supernatural Being choice offered by the Occult Detachment as the rules are now.

And though Pack Leader does not have an 'unlocking unit' you are still restricted by his Wolf Master rule.

For this to work and for your list to be legal you need to make an errata somewhere, either in the rules for the Pack Leader or in the rules for the Occult Detachment.

[fattdex]

You guys forgot to publish base sizes too in line with what was gonna be the norm!

Also:

"Note that due to their vulnerability to fire, the
werewolf leaders of the Kaminski Brigade will
never allow any flame-throwers or Molotov
thingytails to be issued to their troops."



But the green heavies can take a flammenwerfer... que?

Also i take back what I thought about the conscripts, they are actually German SS not Russian aren't they? \\

In an infantry detachment I suppose you could get:

Elite: wolf pack leader
veteran: werewolf
regular: wolfchen
regular: ss russian heavies
regular: ss russian schaerfuhrer
regular: ss russian (upranked green)
green: ss conscripts

or variations thereof.

[abbysdad]

Gah! Good catch on the flamenwerfer and the base sizes. I will add those details to the PDF tonight.

As for the other questions:

Yes, you can always take a pack leader but that requires you to take Russian SS too. So you're trading off the requirement for having an available slot for a super natural being with a requirement to use the Russian SS. If you have an available slot for a super natural creature, that requirement is waved.

Otherwise, you need to follow the usual method for unlocking the super natural units ( schutzcommando & kreighexen).

I will double check with Clint tonight to make sure of his intent. But even in a sacked out regiment like the Kaminski brigade, you're going to need to some "regular" regulars who won't puddle on the couch and chase jeeps

We will get back to you guys tonight.

Cheers,

Chris

[fattdex]

Yeah I think that the wolfpack leader wording and availability definitely needs cleaning up and the repeat of its info maybe removed from the "Using the Kaminski Brigade in AE-WWII" part (or moved to). or a flow chart. or a quarterly productivity report.

[fattdex]

This would be ok...but a little bit 'too many chiefs'. And doable as a normal ss detachment, save for swapping wolfchen for werewolves.

spooky detachment

elite: Krieghexe
veteran: Schutzkommando
regular: SS Werewolf der Kaminski
regular: SS Werewolf der Kaminski
regular: Wolfchen
regular: Wolfchen


I'm not sure I rate wolfchen on paper all that much... does a multi-role suppression firer and close combat warrior actually work? They look like they need sure-footed or something. They seem to have more negatives than positives for troops that have bad ranged combat stats and boosted close combat stats, probably going to have trouble making a proper charge when anything shooting at them will be behind cover unless caught totally unaware. I suppose they might be good for advancing slowly trying to suppress and then cracking off a lucky charge if they advance close enough but generally you want to try to either move twice to get into a charge position, or shoot twice to suppress, not move a little shoot a little move a little shoot a little, charge something if they're dumb enough to stand in the open.

[anaxagorax]

Thanks for the clarification Abbysdad! Even though it's a bit sad that I can't make a full Werewolf and Wolfchen list then, I'll make a Kaminski Brigade anyway as soon as those werewolf heads arrive for the Wolfchen

I'm already looking forward in anticipation for the second brigade, one can never have enough werewolves! I'm guessing it's the Dirlewanger brigade then?

[skorzeny]

The wording on the Occult Detachment is that it must include one Occultist or Supernatural Being troop type. It then goes on to say that you are still required to have the master unit to unlock them (ie, a Schutzkommando to get a Krieghexe). The Pack Leader doesn't have an unlocking unit, hence he could be taken in an Occult Detachment without the need for a Schutzkommando.

The Wolf Master rule is there to allow the Pack Leader to be taken in non-Occult Detachments. The 50% Russian SS stipulation is for when you don't have the ability to take a Supernatural Being (ie, you are using a non-Occult detachment).

[anaxagorax]

Yes, it says that it must include a Supernatural or Occult Being troop type, that is very clear.

It doesn't, however, say anything about giving permission to ignore any and all requirements for including said Supernatural or Occult Being troop type. Like the requirement for the Pack Leader to only be available with a presence of 50% Russian SS in the Detachment.

Again, it might be the intent, but as the rules are written you cannot take the Pack Leader without either following the rules for Wolf Master or have another model present that gives you permission to take Supernatural beings.