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Post by xeoran on Dec 1, 2006 8:49:37 GMT -5
Nope...80's movie? One to see?
Did read the Philip K. thingy story ("King in the High Castle"?) on the subject though.
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Post by spartan939 on Dec 1, 2006 23:19:02 GMT -5
Theres alot of potiental if the Axis never really lost. Like....
It's the 1970's...Russia and Asia are under Axis control. The Soviet Union and Chinese forces have been crushed. However, Stalin built large underground complexes with raw material reserves to last for years. As a result, Chinese and Russians fight a guerilla war.
In Africa, Italy maintains control of Northern Africa. The Boers & African tribes have united to liberate Africa and are given supplies from Britain and France.
France, Britain and several other Allied countries do what they can to stop the spread of Fascism.
The US fights several skirmishes in the Phillipines and Cuba and supply all guerilla forces to fight off the Japanese. However, anarchy is starting to ensue in the US. The Civil Rights Movement is escalating. The American Nazi Party, KKK and those who wish to bring back the Confederacy or restore the US to what it once was have gain significant support and funds from the Axis forces. Communists have also planted seeds to gain some control over the US and the government is struggling to keep order.
There are MANY things to consider, but I think players should ultimatly decide.
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Post by xeoran on Dec 2, 2006 3:24:14 GMT -5
Interesting backround. I like your ideas!
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Post by skorzeny on Dec 2, 2006 4:00:11 GMT -5
The Klan could work, but not the American Nazi Party. That really only started after the war and I think would have been crushed like a bug if there was still a prevalent Nazi political presence anywhere in the world. The pre-war equivalent was the 'German-American Bund' but these guys were interred in camps along with other German immigrants and 'resident aliens'. Few people realise how wide-spread the internment program went, it wasn't just the Japanese. In fact, as soon as hostilities ended, all the Japs and Italians were released from the camps, but the Germans were slowly let go as they were examined on a case by case basis to determine just how 'Nazi' they were. Many were deported to other countries (regardless of where they had been born) when their politics were found suspect.
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Post by xeoran on Dec 2, 2006 5:57:38 GMT -5
Brings up a point about the Briytish Fascists under Mosely, the rampant Nazi-ism of some members of the British aristocracy and of course Britains internment camps (during WW1 my mums family nearly got locked up).
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Post by tordenskjold on Dec 2, 2006 7:53:45 GMT -5
Nice idea for an alternative cold war, I like it a lot! Though how would the Germans crush Russia? From 1943 on wards, I am pretty sure the Russians could have won the war even without allied support. The talk about how fascist were treated after the war makes me fell guilty. We Danes worked with the Germans to a level that makes me wonder which side we were on, until about 1944, were we suddenly realized we hated them, and after the war the death penalty was temporally brought back after being discarded for 50 years, in order to punish everyone who had worked with the Germans. about 46 people were killed without anything resembling a fair trial
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Post by skorzeny on Dec 2, 2006 8:17:37 GMT -5
Well, at least it's a better track record than France...
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Post by xeoran on Dec 2, 2006 8:36:56 GMT -5
Actually for co-operation the Poles were the worst of all the occupied territories. And from '44+ (once they realised the war was won) the French turned to the Resistance in huge numbers.
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Post by spartan939 on Dec 2, 2006 15:13:21 GMT -5
The Klan could work, but not the American Nazi Party. That really only started after the war and I think would have been crushed like a bug if there was still a prevalent Nazi political presence anywhere in the world. The pre-war equivalent was the 'German-American Bund' but these guys were interred in camps along with other German immigrants and 'resident aliens'. Few people realise how wide-spread the internment program went, it wasn't just the Japanese. In fact, as soon as hostilities ended, all the Japs and Italians were released from the camps, but the Germans were slowly let go as they were examined on a case by case basis to determine just how 'Nazi' they were. Many were deported to other countries (regardless of where they had been born) when their politics were found suspect. Yeah, but I was talking about during the cold war. Rockwell definatly gained atleast SOME popularity. If Nazi Germany or the ISR still existed, he would likely be funded from them. But Rockwell was still an influential figure and if he wasn't assasinated, might have spread his influence a bit more. Crushed like a bug? There were PLENTY of commies in America who weren't "crushed like a bug" in the 70's and 60's. And I suppose the Germans could have won by taking over the Caucasus (sp?), crippling Stalin's oil supply. But I meant like...one big counter-revolution/neo confederacy in general.
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Post by skorzeny on Dec 6, 2006 10:04:12 GMT -5
At his height, Rockwell only had a few hundred supporters. That doesn't stack well with the Klan's tens of thousands when they marched on Washington DC.
Also, while the Reds were tolerated in the 1960's, they weren't in the 1950's. Just look at McCarthy and his crusade. Unless the cold war were pushed back quite a bit, I can't see any serious Nazi presence gaining a foothold in the US. A completely seperate organization with sympathies toward them is another matter however.
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Post by xeoran on Dec 6, 2006 10:10:48 GMT -5
But MaCarthy was toppled and Soviet spies continued well into the 80's in America. It wouldnt be unthinkable at the least for a dedicated anti-war, pro-Soviet group usign saboutage and urban terror in the US, even if they werent that numerous. Same goes for Britain: we were infiltrated from pretty much 1917-89 (minus a few years where we did really well at nabbing Soviet agents or sympathisers).
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Post by tuska on Dec 7, 2006 15:57:41 GMT -5
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Post by xeoran on Dec 7, 2006 15:59:49 GMT -5
Nice vid, cheers!
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Post by spartan939 on Dec 7, 2006 16:38:10 GMT -5
But MaCarthy was toppled and Soviet spies continued well into the 80's in America. It wouldnt be unthinkable at the least for a dedicated anti-war, pro-Soviet group usign saboutage and urban terror in the US, even if they werent that numerous. Same goes for Britain: we were infiltrated from pretty much 1917-89 (minus a few years where we did really well at nabbing Soviet agents or sympathisers). And things may have been a bit differant if there was a pro-white/Nazi/Fascist superpower like how the Reds had the Soviet Union. If the cold war was really Germany vs the US, Germany might have been more succesful into 'converting' the US as the US was always pro-white in one way or the other.
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Post by xeoran on Dec 7, 2006 16:44:34 GMT -5
And things may have been a bit differant if there was a pro-white/Nazi/Fascist superpower like how the Reds had the Soviet Union. If the cold war was really Germany vs the US, Germany might have been more succesful into 'converting' the US as the US was always pro-white in one way or the other. I'd agree that covert Soviet agents could almost certainly manipulate white extremists (particuarly in the South). In fact should Germany AND Russia survive (although having studied some economics I feel that I should point out that Britain could actually have surpassed a Cold War Germany and Russia had she been led properly. Sadly she wasn't.) then a US-Germany alliance is quite feasible with racism encouraged.
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