First Mate vs Quartermaster

[ibasse]

Was discussing it over with one of the other members of this board, and we had a real hard time coming up with any reason to take a first mate over a quartermaster at any point.

First mate has
1 +S and command

compared to

the Quartemaster who has
+1A, +1DR, +1 Gear choice and Issue Equipment.

Maybe it's lack of playtesting on my part, but Command doesn't quite seem good enough to warrant the apparent discrepancy between the two individuals.

Any opinions on what in my mind seems like a no-brainer pick?

[Cilionelle]

I felt the same way about the lower ranking officers/NCOs in AEWWII, like the Soviet starshina, the British Army NCO, etc. I couldn't see a use for them. But in playing with large crews and detachments, sometimes your regular guy with Command is so pimped out with gear and killosity that he or she is not with the troops he or she should be Commanding. So the first mate is there for extra flexibility. The Quartermaster and the First Mate aren't in competition with each other, really.

[ibasse]

I disagree. They most certainly are in competition with each other for a regular spot. Do they fulfill the same exact role? No. Choosing one over the other do however represent an opportunity loss over the other, and I'm skeptical to the fact, that the situational benefit of an extra command really compensates for what is (in my mind) overall much worse stats. I could see first mate being a comparable substitute if you had a Veteran crew with 1 Captain, 1 Firstmate, 1 Regular Crewmen unit and some other thing, but even then I'd consider the stats a questionable trade-off and Command vs Issue Equipment even at best.

EDIT: It doesn't get better when you consider the fact that the First Mate needs a hero slot to even use his better S most of the time.

[lorka]

I don't agree, it is not very hard to kill 5 green crewmen, this will bring your whole crew running unless you somehow deal with this. One way is make your captain an apathetic human, another is to bring a second dude with command. So this is the real choice IMO.

[Cilionelle]

Actually, having tinkered with a few crews to try it out, I think you're right, ibasse. The crew sizes are too small to warrant a second Commander, and if you really want it, you give your Quartermaster the Natural Leader hero type.

Veteran crews aren't too good for pirates, since if you're using both regular slots, they're both Crewmen. Captain (V), second Veteran choice, +1 Regular Crewmen choice for the Vet choice, then one Regular slot that can only be filled with another Crewmen - otherwise you'd have to have an extra slot for Green or Regular Crewmen.

Two-man Crews for Pirates don't have the problem, of course. In Standard Crews, you're bringing at least 2 units of Crewmen, and same with the Large Crew, if not three. In that case, if you're happy with their random equipment (which I've never tried), then there is another slot open, but I think I'd be more likely to take a Cannoneer or Corsairs!

[ibasse]

Mar 17, 2011 17:14:46 GMT -5 lorka said:

I don't agree, it is not very hard to kill 5 green crewmen, this will bring your whole crew running unless you somehow deal with this. One way is make your captain an apathetic human, another is to bring a second dude with command. So this is the real choice IMO.

There are several hero choices and a couple of alien templates that offer +DR to your captain, increasing the number of downed men needed to routing all your Pirates as well, so I wouldn't say those are the only two options. Certainly a valid point, but it seems to me there are a many ways of avoiding the issue - be it support crewmen that hang back, durable crewmen or just pasting the enemy before it becomes an issue.

I may just be dabbling in untested theory here, but I think it's an interesting topic. I will probably test a couple of choices myself to compare them when I get the chance, but there seems to be a wide variety of choices that make first mates sub-par in the majority of cases. First mate rescues you from situations that have gone all wrong, quartermaster seems to prevent you from getting into those situations in the first place though.

[lorka]

Well its true it's not as simple as I stated, and I agree so far I haven't seen a reason to include a first mate, but the QM is not as important as you think.

Veteran crew with Pirates is easy enough, remember when a Crewmen unit is Regular you can include 2 non-crewmen choices + 1 captain, so that is: Captain + Regular Crewman + 1 veteran + 1 regular.

I prefer two units of green crewmen to one unit of regular crewmen: large crew replace one green slot to upgrade regular to veteran: Captain + 2 x green Crewmen + 1 veteran + 1 regular.

In that crew one QM is enough, it's also fun to roll a single random equipment choice.

[ibasse]

Mar 18, 2011 3:17:25 GMT -5 lorka said:

Well its true it's not as simple as I stated, and I agree so far I haven't seen a reason to include a first mate, but the QM is not as important as you think.

I wasn't claiming that the Quartermaster was necessarily the most important slot - as you point out, there are builds, where he is not exactly necessary per se - merely that he seemed liked the better pick over the First Mate especially given that he has far superior stats, and I did mention a Veteran crew as a situation where a case could perhaps be made for the First Mate.

Or maybe the option of taking a LRF instead of a regular R is so good, that it evens out? Anyone has experience with that?

[lorka]

To be honest I will probably never field a First Mate, he is a little to weak compared to the other choices.

This goes for a lot of the Pirates slots, most of them will almost never be used (by me that is), but I think Pirates have the most versatile unit in Space Dogs, better than Old Guard which is the only thing close in use. Have 6 AP on a decent unit is yummy, and have so far been my best unit.