A tentative Mounted Infantry Detachment

[Cilionelle]

Before I get to the Detachment type, lemme just say, I think in systems. Not often well enough to do it for a living or anything, but I enjoy working with systems. The following comes from that. While it is sketchy, I’ve tried to make it as balanced as possible, as the “Rationale” section below will highlight. I’m definitely missing stuff, be it balance issues, spelling mistakes, overlooked numbers or difficulties, but I hope that I can humbly submit this for honest critique and comment.

Thanks for reading!
Cilionelle

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Mounted Infantry Detachment

Although the use of mounted infantry has waned as the war has worn on, there still exist specialist detachments that make use of mounted troops, from the Arab Legion in North Africa to the Kazaks of Russia, and even the dreaded SS Knights of the Reich.

Detachment Composition
1 Elite Selection, 2 Veteran Selections, 3 Regular Selections

Heroes
One individual may be upgraded to a Hero as long as the individual has this option. One other individual may be upgraded with the Mounted Hero type.

Restrictions
At least half of the units in the detachment (round up) must be of the Mounted Infantry, Support or Specialist troop types.

Vehicles
None.

Special Orders
Mounted Infantry Detachments may select one (1) Special Order from the following options:
Anti-Tank Grenades, Anti-Tank Weapons, Artillery Support, Broken Axle, Change of Orders, Coordinated Attack, Disbelief, Faulty Technology, Fix Bayonets, Keep Moving, Miscommunication, Molotov thingytails, Momentum, Covering Fire, Out of Ammo, Regroup, Sandbags, Scouts, Shaped Charges, Spy, Stand and Take It, Stand Your Ground, Sticky Bombs, Stragglers, Surrender, Surveyed Ground, Tertiary Objective

Options
Players have the option of removing one unit selection and exchanging it for the following: another unit selection of a lower training level, upgrade an additional Individual to a Hero, select an additional special order, or upgrade an existing unit’s training level (TL) by one level (e.g., Green to Regular).

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Rationale
I created a pattern to weighting the detachments, based on their slots, restrictions, vehicles, heroes, special orders and options. TLs were weighted as four points for Elite units, three for Veteran, two for Regular and Greens, one. Restrictions were weighted to be no points for “Half must be...” and two points for “None”, with point for both the Support and the Occult Detachments, which have better than usual restrictions.

There were four detachments under the 18.6 average, the Cavalry (at 18), with its two vehicles of any role other than Tank, the Recon detachment (18), the Support (18) with its added support units (tank killers, anyone?) and the Tank Detachment itself. That one is an interesting case, only scoring 14 with the criteria above. Given the now-prevalent options for tank hunting and the extra difficulties a tank has in hitting (not killing...) non-tank models, this seems quite low. And of course, it brings the average down considerably, from 19.1 to 18.6.

There were six detachments over the average: the Command (with an exceptional 21, mainly from having two heroes and two options as a starting point), the Experimental (20), the Occult (again with 20), and the Infantry and Motorised Infantry detachments both sitting on 19, close to the average.

I wanted the Mounted Infantry to be on par with the other detachments, but it seems that there is a little bit of “feel” or “instinct” involved (the Darkson guys can correct me about this, of course) in balancing detachments. Obviously, heroes can unbalance the detachment no end, and so can vehicles. Not just heavy vehicles, either (in the Tank Detachment, you’re spending one of your option or your Special Order just to get something other than a Light Tank). Anything with 6+ armour and a weapon is a dangerous tool, which can cover a lot of the board from the very first turn. Mounted infantry have that ability too, but the armour of individual models is lacking significantly, as are the anti-armour options. One must bring a Hero with an anti-tank weapon or a support unit that alters the mobility of the detachment.

I also had to very much resist the urge to make the Mounted Infantry detachment better than the current options for playing a mounted force.

There are currently no Green Mounted Infantry models, so it was decided to have no Green slots in the force. The 1E/2V build mirrors the Command & Veteran detachments, but with one less Regular slot than the Veteran (given the mobility) and one more than the Command (given no vehicles). Limiting the detachment to 2 heroes, one of which must be the Mounted Hero, meant that there was definite shove towards mounting the entire force. Much like the Command detachment’s vehicle situation – there is no requirement to take the vehicle, just as there is no requirement to mount your whole force.

So, the Mounted Infantry detachment hits 20 in the criteria above (and I still can’t make my dream list... sigh!).

The Numbers

Cavalry (1V, 2R, 2G, 1 Hero, No restrictions, 2 Vehicles, 1 Special Order, 1 Option) 18
Command (1E, 2V, 2R, 2 Heroes, “Half...”, 1 Vehicle, 2 Special Orders, 2 Options) 21
Experimental (1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, No restrictions, None, 1 Special Order, 1 Option) 20
Infantry (1E, 1V, 3R, 3G, 1 Hero, “Half...”, None, 2 Special Orders, 2 Options) 19
Motorised Infantry (1V, 3R, 3G, 1 Hero, "Half...", 1 Vehicle, 1 Special Order, 1 Option) 19
Occult (1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, Occult+, None, 1 Special Order, 2 Options) 20
Recon (2V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, "Half...", 1 Vehicle, 1 Special Order, 1 Option) 18
Support (1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, "Half..."+, None, 1 SO, 1 Option) 18
Tank (1V, 2R, 2G, 1 Hero, "Half...", 1 Vehicle, 1 SO, 2 Options) 14
Veteran (1E, 2V, 4R, 1 Hero, "Half...", None, 1 SO, 1 Options) 19

Average 18.6

[abbysdad]

Neat idea. Try it and see how it plays. I know that an all Mounted detachment was planned for the Mongolians in China. We'd be interested in seeing what the reaction is to it.

[gnomesofzurich]

Looking at your scheme, I'm not clear whether or not Options are counting towards the point totals. Also, what point value are you assigning to vehicles and tanks? Note also that your Experimental detachment has an extra Green selection (1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, not 3G).

Working on a similar exercise, I compared detachments with similar compositions and cross-referenced to assign vehicle values (i.e. compare Command to Veteran, note the differences - 1 vehicle, 1 special order vs. 2 regular selections indicates a vehicle is worth 3 points. This doesn't work as well with Motorized Infantry, but I'm not convinced that is a 'balanced' detachment). I am still working to figure a fair value for a tank (appears to be in the range of 6-8), and a fair value for different build restrictions (for Cavalry, Experimental and Occult I'm following your example at 2, but I'm not sure whether the modified build restriction for Support is worth that). I have largely ignored Options, as I'm not convinced that the second option some detachments enjoy is worth a full 'point'.

Cavalry - 1V, 2R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, no restrictions, 2 vehicles = 19
Command - 1E, 2V, 2R, 2 Hero, 2 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec, 1 vehicle = 21
Experimental - 1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, no restrictions = 19
Infantry - 1E, 1V, 3R, 3G, 1 Hero, 2 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec = 19
Motorized Infantry - 1V, 3R, 3G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec, 1 vehicle = 17
Occult - 1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, mod. restrictions = 19
Reconnaissance - 2V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec, 1 vehicle = 19
Support - 1E, 1V, 3R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup+/Spec = 19 (18?)
Tank - 1V, 2R, 2G, 1 Hero, 1 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec, 1 Tank = 11 + Tank (6 to 8)
Veteran - 1E, 2V, 4R, 1 Hero, 1 SO, 1/2 Inf/Sup/Spec = 20

As you can see, under this scheme most detachments come out at 19 points, with Command a clear leader at 21, Motorized Infantry trailing at 17, and the Tank detachment value undecided.

[Cilionelle]

Thanks for the input, gnomes. The Command vs. Veteran also has an extra Hero choice in there, so it's +1 option, +1 hero, +1 SO, +1 vehicle vs. +2 Regular slots. This means vehicles are one point each. I personally think the options assigned to the detachments are very powerful, giving more flexibility to list building. I love low model counts and so the Command Detachment allows me to have three models on the table, if I so choose. It's nice. So I score them one point.

I went with one point for vehicles, to keep it simple. The Tank detachment is sorely limited in that regard, as I mentioned. I am not convinced, with the plethora of AT options that a detachment with any grenades can bring to bear, that tanks are worth the effort. Medium tanks, perhaps, but otherwise, no. Heavy tanks you can plan for, Light tanks are easily taken out by a model with the option of rifle grenades. But they still only score one point due to their limitations.

For the restrictions placed on the different detachments, I scored two points for unrestricted, one for the lighter restrictions on the Occult (still need key units and only one extra unlocked per key) and Support (1:1 ratio of Support units to Infantry) detachments, and none for the regular "Half must be..." detachments. Thanks for the heads-up on the Experimental green slots though, I'll edit the original post to reflect that.

With all the said, what do you think of the Mounted Infantry detachment concept?

[maverickman5]

I like your Mounted Infantry concept detachment. I played(later found out illegally) my ROA all mounted infantry Veteran list at last years GenCon, as well as as in our local campaign. Your detachment has the "feel" I too was going for when creating my detachment. Move fast-strike hard-die quick was how this list performed, I was usually out gunned, out manned but never outmaneuvered. Snipers, support weapons and intervening terrain made charges difficult to maneuver through, but once the horde got close, it usually ended quickly as the strength and attack of the mounted infantry in CC during a charge meant death for all but the hardiest/luckiest of soldiers.

I don't think the extra "mounted hero" upgrade is really needed, and is just extra gravy, but it add a cool idea of adding that extra Occult/tech/command model to the detachment. Personally, I'd rather have an additional Regular slot, or allow Mounted infantry to count for the Support ratio.

[gnomesofzurich]

Apr 1, 2011 7:44:11 GMT -5 Cilionelle said:

Thanks for the input, gnomes. The Command vs. Veteran also has an extra Hero choice in there, so it's +1 option, +1 hero, +1 SO, +1 vehicle vs. +2 Regular slots. This means vehicles are one point each. I personally think the options assigned to the detachments are very powerful, giving more flexibility to list building. I love low model counts and so the Command Detachment allows me to have three models on the table, if I so choose. It's nice. So I score them one point.

I went with one point for vehicles, to keep it simple. The Tank detachment is sorely limited in that regard, as I mentioned. I am not convinced, with the plethora of AT options that a detachment with any grenades can bring to bear, that tanks are worth the effort. Medium tanks, perhaps, but otherwise, no. Heavy tanks you can plan for, Light tanks are easily taken out by a model with the option of rifle grenades. But they still only score one point due to their limitations.

The Command vs Veteran was just one example, comparing Infantry to Reconnaissance you also get a 3 point cost for vehicles, again discounting options. At the very least a vehicle is worth a Regular unit selection (as that is the training level of the crew).

Apr 1, 2011 7:44:11 GMT -5 Cilionelle said:

For the restrictions placed on the different detachments, I scored two points for unrestricted, one for the lighter restrictions on the Occult (still need key units and only one extra unlocked per key) and Support (1:1 ratio of Support units to Infantry) detachments, and none for the regular "Half must be..." detachments. Thanks for the heads-up on the Experimental green slots though, I'll edit the original post to reflect that.

With all the said, what do you think of the Mounted Infantry detachment concept?

I think the Mounted Infantry detachment is reasonably balanced, but agree with maverickman5 that the extra Mounted Hero may not be needed.

[abbysdad]

Glen would know. He's the expert on mounted cav detachments.

I agree with Glenn by the way. The extra hero is gravy compared to other detachments.

[maverickman5]

Apr 1, 2011 19:52:36 GMT -5 abbysdad said:

Glenn would know. He's the expert on mounted cav detachments.

See, I don't cheat. I'm just ahead of my time. ;D

[Cilionelle]

How's this revision, then?

Currently, the Mounted Infantry troop type replaces the Infantry troop type for the purposes of putting a list together. It's like the Veteran list, now, but with Mounted Infantry instead of (regular, foot-slogging) Infantry.

---------

Mounted Infantry Detachment

Although the use of mounted infantry has waned as the war has worn on, there still exist specialist detachments that make use of mounted troops, from the Arab Legion in North Africa to the Kazaks of Russia, and even the dreaded SS Knights of the Reich.

Detachment Composition
1 Elite Selection, 2 Veteran Selections, 4 Regular Selections

Heroes
One individual may be upgraded to a Hero as long as the individual has this option.

Restrictions
At least half of the units in the detachment (round up) must be of the Mounted Infantry, Support or Specialist troop types.

Vehicles
None.

Special Orders
Mounted Infantry Detachments may select one (1) Special Order from the following options:
Anti-Tank Grenades, Anti-Tank Weapons, Artillery Support, Broken Axle, Change of Orders, Coordinated Attack, Disbelief, Faulty Technology, Fix Bayonets, Keep Moving, Miscommunication, Molotov thingytails, Momentum, Covering Fire, Out of Ammo, Regroup, Sandbags, Scouts, Shaped Charges, Spy, Stand and Take It, Stand Your Ground, Sticky Bombs, Stragglers, Surrender, Surveyed Ground, Tertiary Objective

Options
Players have the option of removing one unit selection and exchanging it for the following: another unit selection of a lower training level, upgrade an additional Individual to a Hero, select an additional special order, or upgrade an existing unit’s training level (TL) by one level (e.g., Green to Regular).

[maverickman5]

If half the units are Mounted Infantry, ou won't be able to meet the 4:1 ratio for Support.

[maverickman5]

any further developments/thoughts?