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Post by rickypimous on Feb 25, 2011 3:47:35 GMT -5
A suppressed unit can only make move action and must seek for cover. Question :
A) Can the suppressed unit still take a "sprint" action ? Or a "charge" action ?
B) "Seek cover" really need some clarification. Are any cover acceptable ? Exemple :
1. The unit can choose to move to a cover that is in the direction of the shots ?
2. The unit can choose to move to a cover that is in the direction of ennemy units even if the ennemy unit would be reach BEFORE the cover ?
3. If the above is yes, then can the suppressed unit come in base contact with the ennemy that are on the way to the cover ?
4. The unit can choose to move to a cover that would protect him from some ennemy but not from the ennemy that make the suppression shots ?
5. The unit can choose to move to a cover that is not the nearest cover ?
6. The unit can choose to move to a cover that it can not reach this turn (not enough move) while there is a closest cover that they could reach ?
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Post by lorka on Feb 27, 2011 4:15:11 GMT -5
I have some similar questions here, but lets see if we can't figure it out  "Models in a unit that has been suppressed must seek cover (if not in cover when suppressed) an must remain in cover until they are no longer suppressed." So to answer A, yes they can sprint to get in cover, since that is a movement action choice, I don't see how they can charge tho that is an melee attack choice that includes a sprint action. B1: Sure they seek cover why not something in front of them. B2: That would never be accepted as a move to cover. B3: Will never happen see B2. B4: Hmm? Guess this can spawn a huge discussion on the subject: 'What is Cover?' B5: I would say they should seek the nearest cover, but I guess this is something that depending on the quality of the cover is something that could be discussed at the table once in awhile, I suggest if no reasonable agreement can be made you can chose if you roll 4+ on a die. B6: No of course not. |
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Post by varagon on Feb 27, 2011 12:49:35 GMT -5
Cover comes from the suppressing model...so if that model still has LoS on you, then you aren't in cover.
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Post by lorka on Feb 28, 2011 5:05:24 GMT -5
Unit 1 is suppressed by Unit 2, Unit 2 is killed by Unit 3, Unit 1 is activated ... what can they do? Are they still suppressed? What defines cover, since the suppressing model is gone?
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Post by dijit80 on Feb 28, 2011 6:21:34 GMT -5
I'd say simply that the cover must give cover from any visible enemy or from the board edge and model were the suppression came from, as they're meant to be almost simultaneous actions.
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Post by rickypimous on Feb 28, 2011 8:03:51 GMT -5
It happened and the only cover unit 1 could reach was in direction of another ennemy unit that was just in front of this cover (a low wall). This is the reason of question B2 (and at some degree B4 and B6).
I think I got your idea, but it is not about LoS. You can be behind a cover that gives you an amor bonus but still have a LoS with the model that suppressed you.
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Post by rickypimous on Feb 28, 2011 8:19:12 GMT -5
What if you have 2 models is the suppressed unit. Both can reach a cover, but not the same cover... And of course, if they split they loose cohesion.
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Post by lorka on Feb 28, 2011 10:58:27 GMT -5
Remember when you quote to make sure its obvious its me you are quoting since I am not part of the Darkson Design its all just ramblings and not real official rulings Anyways go by what appears most reasonable, as long as it not just a cheesy way to get you Arges Cutters into close combat more or less anything will probably be accepted at the table. |
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Post by rickypimous on Feb 28, 2011 11:28:16 GMT -5
I'm sure the official wait & see if someone rambling cannot be nice enough to stop an official rule  Common sense would tell me they have to split and have to regain cohesion next turn. |
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Post by dijit80 on Feb 28, 2011 16:36:39 GMT -5
I'd say the rules are actually quite clear. It says the unit must 'seek' cover; that means they must use all their movement to find the nearest cover, if they don't find, well nevermind, they've sought it and failed to get there. In real terms it'd mean the unit scoots and fails to get behind anything real as the enemy continues pouring lead (or laser) at them. Also units 'must' remain in cohesion (ie no splitting the unit), the strength of the wording in my ears (or rather eyes) means that cohesion takes precedence followed by moving to seek cover. I hope thats clear enough.
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Post by lorka on Feb 28, 2011 17:14:57 GMT -5
I gotta agree with dijit80 on that one, stay in cohesion, you are not allowed to willingly move a model out of cohesion nothing in the suppression rules suggest that it takes precedence over that.
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Post by Darkson on Feb 28, 2011 23:28:07 GMT -5
I'd say the rules are actually quite clear. It says the unit must 'seek' cover; that means they must use all their movement to find the nearest cover, if they don't find, well nevermind, they've sought it and failed to get there. In real terms it'd mean the unit scoots and fails to get behind anything real as the enemy continues pouring lead (or laser) at them. Also units 'must' remain in cohesion (ie no splitting the unit), the strength of the wording in my ears (or rather eyes) means that cohesion takes precedence followed by moving to seek cover. I hope thats clear enough. This is correct. Find the nearest cover but you must maintain unit cohesion. |
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Post by rickypimous on Mar 1, 2011 6:11:25 GMT -5
1) What about different cover quality ? If you have a bush at 2'' and a wall at 3'' (both reachable by the unit in 1 activation), can the player choose to move the unit behind the wall ?
2) What if the nearest cover from 1 model of the unit can't be reach by all the model while there is another cover a bit more far but which could be reached by everybody. Exemple (unit of 2 green model with move of 3''): Model A has cover 1 at 1'' but it is 4'' from model B. Cover 2 is 3'' from both models.
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beyer
Private
Science. It works bitches!
Posts: 16
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Post by beyer on Mar 1, 2011 6:25:54 GMT -5
In general, when ruleswise forcing a unit to move in a certain way it is very important to be VERY strict with the wording.
If a suppressed unit has to seek the NEAREST cover it should be noted that the player might measure the distance to the nearest cover from any model in the unit and try to move the entire unit behind this piece of cover, for instance. Even if it means the entire crew does not reach cover.
Otherwise it should be noted that a measurement should be made to see which cover the MOST models could get behind.
Even if this cover is of inferior quality compared to what else might be available.
Also it should be noted in what relation the cover should be sought. Who are you taking cover from? The suppressor or all enemies?
What do you do in case of ties?
Equal distance is unlikely but if any other ruling is made, it should be clearly spelled out how to perform this forced movement.
Playtesters get very speed blind, because there will always be concensus on how the rules work, so very often, things are not spelled out clearly simply because people know the true intention of the rules.
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Post by dijit80 on Mar 3, 2011 3:24:17 GMT -5
I think it's often a case of what looks 'right', using a subjective, rather than objective point of view. Yes there might be lots of cover, but a model is going to head to the nearest cover, it's not going to be the best cover, if at the end of it they are of cohesion then move one or more to the next nearest so they are. It's often a judgement call, and both players ought to be more focused on the game and it's overall flow than rules-lawyering in the nitty gritty.
Duncan
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