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Post by cosworth on Mar 24, 2011 3:33:22 GMT -5
Rocket Launchers are (too?) powerful weapons but maybe we have been playing them wrong.
The question is: Do normal cover rules apply to rockets launcher both for suppression and damage purposes?
The wording on AOE effects is a little confusing. It says generally AOE weapons deny cover to the target and because Rockets have an AOE this implies they deny cover bonus. Being a direct fire weapon this is counter intuitive. Especially when firing a rocket at a target underneath a roof. According to AOE rules they get cover even from a direct fire weapon.
It seems to me the AOE rules are written only with indirect fire in mind.
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Post by ibasse on Mar 24, 2011 5:27:16 GMT -5
It certainly applies to suppression. To quote page 22:
"Thus, if a unit was being suppressed by a rocket launcher (Strength 6+2d6) they would suffer a -6 made to the check to resist suppression. Keep in mind that normal bonuses for cover are taken into account before the check is made."
The AoE rules on page 40 seem to say that the only way to receive cover against a rocket launcher is if you are inside a building or anything else that supplies a roof over the head. Perhaps you are using too little terrain making it easier for the rocket launcher to dominate?
PS: I do love my new rulebook.
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Post by cosworth on Mar 24, 2011 8:35:35 GMT -5
Yes I've read that too. The "roof" reference doesn't make sense for a direct fire weapon as it doesn't hit you from above.
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Post by ibasse on Mar 24, 2011 8:48:05 GMT -5
Yes I've read that too. The "roof" reference doesn't make sense for a direct fire weapon as it doesn't hit you from above. Hm, true. Would be nice with a clarification on it. |
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Post by evernevermore(john) on Mar 24, 2011 16:31:49 GMT -5
Why doesnt it make sense? To me it would imply that the only way you will find protection is in hunkering down in something that breaks line of sight (like a trench or ditch) or inside a building where your position is obscured.
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Post by cosworth on Mar 25, 2011 2:47:36 GMT -5
The way it's worded walls give no protection from AOE weapons - only roofs, unless you are on the other side of a wall compared to the point of impact. That only makes sense for indirect fire weapons.
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Post by Darkson on Mar 27, 2011 22:26:18 GMT -5
If the cover blocks LoS than you receive cover from a direct fired rocket.
If the AoE weapon is indirect you would receive cover if:
1) The target has a roof over it than the roof would be equal to the type of cover the target is in
2) The center/point of impact of the AoE weapon is outside/other side of the cover in which the target is in
Let me know if this answers your questions.
Cheers,
Robert
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Post by ibasse on Mar 28, 2011 3:06:51 GMT -5
If the cover blocks LoS than you receive cover from a direct fired rocket. If the AoE weapon is indirect you would receive cover if: 1) The target has a roof over it than the roof would be equal to the type of cover the target is in 2) The center/point of impact of the AoE weapon is outside/other side of the cover in which the target is in Let me know if this answers your questions. Cheers, Robert What if the Rocket Launcher has a smart weapon? How are you supposed to trace the LoS if you can't see what you're shooting at? It'll never be indirect since it's hit or miss. |
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Post by lorka on Mar 28, 2011 5:50:52 GMT -5
Thanks that covers most questions, now just one more, what constitutes cover against a smart missile fired from a model that don't have LOS to his target?
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Post by Cilionelle on Mar 28, 2011 6:23:31 GMT -5
Everything. If you can't see your target, everything is cover. So choose the highest cover-yielding terrain and apply the appropriate bonus. That's what I'd say. I know it isn't as elegant a solution as might be expected, but since you're not making a roll anyway (thus no +1 penalty to RC) in the case of suppression, and you aren't going to have to worry too much if you're rolling 6+2d6 for damage, that's how I'd do it.
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Post by ibasse on Mar 28, 2011 6:50:16 GMT -5
Everything. If you can't see your target, everything is cover. So choose the highest cover-yielding terrain and apply the appropriate bonus. That's what I'd say. I know it isn't as elegant a solution as might be expected, but since you're not making a roll anyway (thus no +1 penalty to RC) in the case of suppression, and you aren't going to have to worry too much if you're rolling 6+2d6 for damage, that's how I'd do it. It's very important for suppression since you apply the cover to resist suppression, so on average people would auto-resist suppression from Rocket Launchers. |
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Post by lorka on Mar 28, 2011 8:02:29 GMT -5
Well 6 - 3 for cover is still Drive -3 to resist suppression, really good considering you are suppressing someone from hiding. There is one problem tho, and that is we still don't have an official answer on if you can move around while suppressed and in cover, in that case being suppressed by a smart fired missile nothing since you can move all over anyway hehe. So really what is nearest cover? And can you move while under cover and suppressed? As of now, 80% of my opponents field a Smart Rocket Launcher, so we discuss this a lot  |
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Post by Darkson on Mar 28, 2011 21:56:38 GMT -5
As to the cover you would get from a Smart Weapon it would be the cover the Target is in not all of the cover between the Target and the Shooter.
I will look up the Moveing while Supressed and post a reply tonight.
Cheers,
Robert
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Post by Cilionelle on Mar 28, 2011 23:59:27 GMT -5
But cover is anything that comes between you and the target (from the shooter's perspective), right? It doesn't matter how far away the cover is to the target, just that there is an increased likelihood of hitting something else.
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Post by ibasse on Mar 29, 2011 2:29:42 GMT -5
But cover is anything that comes between you and the target (from the shooter's perspective), right? It doesn't matter how far away the cover is to the target, just that there is an increased likelihood of hitting something else. But that's because you are at risk of hitting the stuff in between. I assume the smart rocket is supposed to shoot around it to some extent. In that case a wall that is touching the RL model but is 18" away from the model being shot at wouldn't offer much protection. Here the penalty for shooting around the corner is represented by the +1 to RC. I'd lean towards the model being shot at getting cover from whatever he was hugging at the time, as such as long as he keeps hugging something I imagine he should be able to move while suppressed by the Smart Rocket launcher as long as he never loses touch with some kind of cover. Of course this would make it near impossible to actually pin someone with a teleporter, but it still prevents them from shooting barring ATW. |
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