Occult Ideas

[skorzeny]

Whistling up an actual physical creature seems a bit too over the top, if you ask me. Now, conjuring up something from 'outside' like a demon, or something intangible like a spirit seems a bit easier to swallow.

And why is it that everyone instantly thinks of shamans when they think of magic that actually works? Why not have the British fielding witches and magicians with actual powers beyond the mundane? The Thule Society in Germany might possess genuine occult knowledge that functions. In America, perhaps it is theosphists, or even the famed clairvoyant Edgar Cayce. The only ones I really don't see involved in this field would be the Soviets - even more than religion, I think the commies would crush down anything smacking of magic as being the 'oppressive trappings of decadent, backward Tsarist policies'.

The 'Weird War II' game has Siberian shamans able to conujure up yeti, so I think that would be a wise thing to avoid.

[xeoran]

Mmmm but mightnt actual demons be OTT. That way we have to admit there is a demon realm. I'd much rather we had non religous occultism (or rather non religous creatures and the like though religous names migh be applied to the magic and creatures).

I can definately see occultits from clubs (Britain was known for all those crazy Victorian nutters- doctors, chemists, alchemists, spirit mediums, clairvoyants, frothing doomsayers (with sandwich board "the end is nigh") and several of the clubs like Freemasons might have stumbled upon lost knowledge. Britain also did not crack down on the Knights Templar so perhps some of their knowledge was preserved. There is also the possibility of shamans teaching others when brought back from the colonial wars. Plus general scientists, librarians etc. I definately feel that a Chtulian level of occultism is preferable to shamans. (note all this froma British perspective as I'm a Brit, feel free to give similar examples from other nations).

I must also say I'd rather that the practitioners were weak. So less lobbing fireballs and more the ability to "know" where somone is hidden, the ability to feel "danger" to yourself and duck. These could be available to people who dont know they are occultists, they just trust their "instincts". I feel there should then be a break to known powerful occultists who much like in Hellboy use machines to channel power (which gives a reasonable explanation- magic exists but unless you use certain machines you cant get much power or even know you are a magican).

I can also see a British "occult" radar, as we're known for our use of radar why not have occult radar too.

So yeah, occultism as developments of instincts or abilities unless found (which requires machines that say the Germans invented and a French agent stole for the Allies) and weak but nifty or as destructive but requiring machines (like Rasputins metal glove thingies in Hellboy) which can easily run out of power (so a limit on amount of spells that can be cast- also the possiblity of "upgrading" spells by adding more power- better spell but you will get less spells off.

So yeah, make what you will of the above ramblins...coffee.......

EDIT; I'm a colonel? Damn that was fast...I really spend waaaay too much time on here. Only nopticed thanks to those distinctive orange stars but...hell, sleep and coffee....

[malika]

Hmm the idea of spirits possessing "robotic" shells seems interesting to me, similar to the Thousand Sons in Warhammer 40k. I assume the Germans would pull this one off. The occult faction is in serious need of its own military arm of "regular" soldiers and hence tries to do it this way. I would love to see a story about some experiment revolving that going out of control!

My preference of design for the shell would probably be something along the lines of a male version (with a German helmet) of the robot from Metropolis:

[xeoran]

Hmm, Paolo Parentes robot German from DUST is pretty rocking ( www.rackscan.net/rackscan/rackscan-view.php?res_id=549&res_lang=FR ). i'd like big, buly designs- after all this is still the 40-50's. The Metropolis design looks like an very advanced version to me. I think we should continue the German attribute of making it big and beasty. Aside from that we might want to break away from human shaped robots to say a two legged one with a row of reloadable panzerfausts/neubelweurfer (sp?) on its back, it would stalk forward, fire, retreat, reload and return. Like a bunker buster or tank hunter.

[malika]

A design like that is cool, but it looks somewhat too high tech to me. I imagined these shells to have something from statues.

If you want a less human shaped robot you should stick to the idea of robots, my idea is basicly a possessed shell.

[unknowntales]

My only complaint for using the Occult with the NAZI'S is that it must be kept from the boss. He was strictly against it and mentioned the practice in his book: Mein Kampf.

Hitler undoubtedly watched these efforts with the greatest misgiving. In Mein Kampf he had already come out against pseudo-academic folkish occultism.

Obviously, Himmler must keep these projects secret from him.

They should stay strictly in the SS.

[malika]

So how did Himmler keep his own occult ideas secret from Hitler?

[xeoran]

Definately- well we know that Himmler justified all this as research in "Aryanity" (the trips to check out Finnish occultism anyway). Of course by this point Hitler is probably quite mad and has changed his mind (I can see him occassionally regressing and killing occultists as his mind slips). One idea might be that Hitler was the subjects of a scientific experiement to "increase" "Aryanity" but it gave him occult powers and destroyed the logical bits of his mind...cliched yes but servicable.

Of course by the end he might have accepted any weapon he could use.

malika- OK, I can see the Wermacht developing the DUST robot but limited (and has frequent breakdowns, limited actions etc). For the posessed beings- well perhaps they ignore military advice (being nutter occultists) and design them with mythology in mind. Perhaps metal Teutonic Knights, or representations of Sigismund etc ?

[malika]

malika- OK, I can see the Wermacht developing the DUST robot but limited (and has frequent breakdowns, limited actions etc).

Robots sound interesting, perhaps a different topic for those things.

For the posessed beings- well perhaps they ignore military advice (being nutter occultists) and design them with mythology in mind.

Well the mythology element sounds cool, but still model them after German soldiers.

[xeoran]

Definately but I can see a representative German soldier- like a knights armoured body with an angelic face, german helmet, panzerfaust and possibly extra armour (which would be gritty and square- like tank armour) added on.

[malika]

Im worried about the more square armour as it would make the figure look more of a technological marvel, I would still go for a very "human" 20s interpretation of an android, mixed with some more artistical look.

Another idea, inspired by Vulture, that villain from Spiderman. A creature which ages very quickly and needs souls to survive, something similar to a soul-vampire or something along those lines. Personally I would like to see this character as neutral who would feed upon anybody.

[xeoran]

Soul vampires are good. But I'd rather they were firmly under the control of the occultists and not neutral.

On the square armour front I just feel that it should have WW2 elements to it. Also armour would help ands mixing the WW2 with the weirdly occult does it for me. Actual serious occultness isnt my idea on this- the occult should match the WW2 backround.

[skorzeny]

I suppose by 'demon' I mean the modern 'secular' definition of an etheral nonhuman entity, as in something similar to a ghost but which was never truly alive. Certainly religions would label such things as demons (and some sort of thing along this lines is present in every culture, from Indian rakshasas to American Indian wendigo and 'thin people'), but a scientist might view them as 'inhabitants of another plane of reality'. Nomenclature aside, I think they should still function as traditional demons, needing a human host to exist for prolonged periods in our world and requiring 'souls' or 'spirit energy' to feed.

Yes, Hitler, despite Allied propoganda of the time, had very little use for mysticism and the occult. Himmler and Hess would be the chief guilty parties in that arena. In fact, Reinhard Heydrich used to rail against all the SS funds Himmler frittered away on projekts such as Sonderkommando-H and the Ahnenerbe, seeing the proof of Aryan superiority as lying in science, not spurious occult research.

[xeoran]

OK, sounds cool- just wantedto avoid the obvious Christian demons.

[malika]

Yes, Hitler, despite Allied propoganda of the time, had very little use for mysticism and the occult. Himmler and Hess would be the chief guilty parties in that arena. In fact, Reinhard Heydrich used to rail against all the SS funds Himmler frittered away on projekts such as Sonderkommando-H and the Ahnenerbe, seeing the proof of Aryan superiority as lying in science, not spurious occult research.

You should take a look in the German factions thread...oh wait you already did. But yeah there will be various factions within the Germans and well, they might not like each other.

On the square armour front I just feel that it should have WW2 elements to it. Also armour would help ands mixing the WW2 with the weirdly occult does it for me. Actual serious occultness isnt my idea on this- the occult should match the WW2 backround.

Look at this then:


www.director-file.com/cunningham/604.html