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Shotgun
Jun 28, 2009 20:32:41 GMT -5
Post by albanyadriel on Jun 28, 2009 20:32:41 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity why are there no shotguns in the game? I know they weren't really used during WWII but they existed. (even outlawed by the Geneva convention I believe). Just a thought. . .
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Shotgun
Jun 28, 2009 21:30:11 GMT -5
Post by evernevermore(john) on Jun 28, 2009 21:30:11 GMT -5
I dont know that they were ever outlawed by any convention - I do know that the Germans were decidely unhappy about them being used in WW1. Imagine that, people who pioneered gas weapons having a problem with a shotgun....
The reason I believe they were never outlawed was thier use in the Pacific Theater by Marines. In jungle fights there are few weapons as decidedly useful as a shotgun. The WW1 era Trench gun shotgun was the primary gun issued, as the heat guard was equipped with a bayonet lug. (By the way if you ever get a chance to fire one take it, the design is known for an interesting quirk - if the trigger is held down and the slide cycled the gun will fire until it goes dry) But like any weapon of the time period it was never produced in enough quantity so common sporting shotguns were issued as well.
As to why the shotgun isnt in the game - prod Rob and Matt about that
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mechaace
Sergeant
Really an atomically powered robot
Posts: 249
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 8:45:42 GMT -5
Post by mechaace on Jun 29, 2009 8:45:42 GMT -5
I suspect you may have answered your own question. They weren't in common usage during WWII and therefore it wouldn't make a great deal of sense to have them in a game that is based on WWII (albeit with weirdness added in).
Would be interesting to see them introduced though, especially as evernevermore says in the pacific theatre.
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 19:26:06 GMT -5
Post by xGIxJOKERx on Jun 29, 2009 19:26:06 GMT -5
Maybe some of the special forces guys will have them, they typicaly have more freedom in picking their weapons.
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 20:10:49 GMT -5
Post by evernevermore(john) on Jun 29, 2009 20:10:49 GMT -5
I suspect you may have answered your own question. They weren't in common usage during WWII and therefore it wouldn't make a great deal of sense to have them in a game that is based on WWII (albeit with weirdness added in). Would be interesting to see them introduced though, especially as evernevermore says in the pacific theatre. From the source Ive seen there were far more common in the Pacific then your statement makes it sound. Its more a matter of use, in Europe there was very little need for a shotgun as in CQB a .45 cal submachine gun like the M3 or the Thompson would be more useful (ammo capacity is much greater). However in a jungle situation like in the Pacific theater a gun firing multiple, heavy, reasonably slow projectiles is actually a better use. In a jungle combat distances are much shorter, again suiting the shotgun, and the target is often obscured, which only helps so much against a shotgun blast. One of the problems with using a rifle is the simple fact that intervening cover can actually deflect the bullet. Even the relatively powerful .30'06 round could be deflected away from the target by branches. The interesting problem will be the actual rules issues. How do you represent a shotgun blast in the game? Admittedly some sort of area of effect could work, but a high rate of fire is highly unlikely as shotguns are notorious for recoil, which throws off aim more than anything else. And yes I seem to be the local gun nut on here
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 20:39:09 GMT -5
Post by xGIxJOKERx on Jun 29, 2009 20:39:09 GMT -5
One of the best ways I've seen shotguns represented was in Warhammer 40k: Squad Command for psp. They just had a cone of effect, no to hit roll needed and they could strike multiple targets, but not the guys standing behind one that was hit. A template similar to this would be useful and an interesting way around it. The other cool shotgun rule I saw was from Deadlands, which had the strength decreasing as the target was further away. Perhaps a combination of the two rules? Like a cone with horizontal lines on it marking the decreasing strength rolls. It would be a standardized template for all shotguns (as 12 gage does about the same amount of damage no matter what it is fired out of, relatively speaking.) You could always make distinctions between different shotguns by changing the ROF between one shot sporting guns and combat shotguns that have an internal magazine. I am a bit of a gun nut, too .
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 21:27:24 GMT -5
Post by evernevermore(john) on Jun 29, 2009 21:27:24 GMT -5
The cone and damage vs range are old standbys in RPGs so I can see what you mean, there.
And since its Weird War maybe we can craft a British unique character, along the lines of the Abomination Hunter, who totes around his 4 gauge elephant gun - I think even a SturmAffe or Rohlingsoldat would notice that kind of fire power...
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 21:31:20 GMT -5
Post by skorzeny on Jun 29, 2009 21:31:20 GMT -5
You'll likely be seeing shotguns when we do the US Marines. They were the biggest users of shotguns during WWII and employed a handful of different models just to meet the demand. Nothing breaks a Banzai charge like a facefull of shot.
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 22:31:38 GMT -5
Post by evernevermore(john) on Jun 29, 2009 22:31:38 GMT -5
I believe a .50 cal or a flame thrower works pretty well too
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Shotgun
Jun 29, 2009 22:45:10 GMT -5
Post by skorzeny on Jun 29, 2009 22:45:10 GMT -5
A machine gun is just so impersonal though.
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Shotgun
Jun 30, 2009 7:52:10 GMT -5
Post by csr556 on Jun 30, 2009 7:52:10 GMT -5
Rezolution uses a cone with damage gradients on it. With their system everything is a D6 damage. So in the first 2 inches it's 8D6, then drops to 4D6 at the end of the template.
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Shotgun
Jun 30, 2009 11:10:52 GMT -5
Post by albanyadriel on Jun 30, 2009 11:10:52 GMT -5
Perhaps something like this:
Weapon Range Strength ROF Notes Shotgun 12 *3+D6 1:1 Buckshot Blast
Buckshot Blast: A shotgun using buckshot ammunition sprays a cloud of shot that expands the farther out a target is. As a result any model (friend or foe) that is within 1 inch from another model struck by a shotgun that is more than half of the shotgun's range away (6) is hit as well. All models struck by a shotgun farther than half of the range of the shotgun will receive a -2 to their cover save bonus. When a model targeted by a shotgun is within half of the range of the shotgun the buckshot is concentrated as a result the strength of the shotgun will be 4+D6 but will not expand to other models. Models firing a shotgun cannot use the Aim ability.
The idea is that the effect and use of a shotgun changes dramatically depending upon the distance the shotgun is fired from. The inability to use Aim is from the notorious recoil and the spray of bullets negating any intentional efforts of picking out weak spots in an opponent.
Cheers!
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Shotgun
Jun 30, 2009 12:35:09 GMT -5
Post by skorzeny on Jun 30, 2009 12:35:09 GMT -5
Ah, but if you remove teh ability to use Aim, the shotgun loses its effectiveness as an anti-zombie device ;D
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Shotgun
Jun 30, 2009 14:44:59 GMT -5
Post by Darkson on Jun 30, 2009 14:44:59 GMT -5
For fighting all those Zombies in AE.
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Shotgun
Jun 30, 2009 14:48:25 GMT -5
Post by csr556 on Jun 30, 2009 14:48:25 GMT -5
Well, yeah! shotguns aren't known for being good anti-mech weapons. ;D
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